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Date	Original Topic
26th January 2005	The Man Who Would Be King - another mystery ? By Coll This story for the cinema I definitely don't think is true, but what caught my eye was they had the two british soldiers wearing the scarlet tunics and using rifles similar to those used during the Zulu War. Could it be that after service in the british army that many of the ex-soldiers stayed in the countries that there had originally been conflict in, or in lands bordering them, to seek out their fortunes in the places they would never normally have seen if they had chosen another career in civilian life, rather than travelling overseas with the british forces. Coll
Date	Replies
26th January 2005	Coll Further to my topic above. Did any soldiers who survived the Anglo-Zulu War 1879 decide to remain in Africa after leaving the army to pursue a career as a landowner etc., rather than returning to their lives back home ?. I'm just asking out of curiosity as such a 'new land' must have appealed to many who were maybe looking for opportunities to make a fresh start in a different country. Coll
26th January 2005	Peter Ewart Coll Fiction - one of Kipling's short stories. Some of the RD defenders ended up in SA, such as Cantwell, but he came home first. Others were already there and continued to live there (e.g. Dalton). Are you looking for deserters? It certainly wasn't at all uncommon after the 2nd ABW for British soldiers to emigrate to SA after coming home first. In my family they left it to the women - Grandfather Ewart & two of his brothers served, grandad bringing home a DCM. Two younger sisters emigrated some years later & descendants are still in KZN! Peter
26th January 2005	Coll Peter Thanks for replying. Yes. It's just a general enquiry to see if any participants in the AZW were drawn to Africa as a place to make a new life for themselves, regarding opportunities and a very different environment than back at home. This would mean, as you say, in most cases returning home first for a period of time after the stress of campaign life, to contemplate what the future held after their career in the military came to an end, considering the idea of going back to Africa to stay. However, with you mentioning deserters, yes I would be interested to know if the appeal of this country affected men so much they did literally run away from military service. Coll
26th January 2005	Peter Weedon Peter Yes, a short story; but a magnificent film. Peter
27th January 2005	Kris 1176 Pte Thomas Lockhart was another who went to South Africa, he died in Krugersdorp 25th June 1943 Kris
27th January 2005	Coll Kris Thanks for your reply. Although I have not researched this subject at great length, I do recall reading of some of the more well-known AZW participants who did decide to stay in Africa, but never really much about what sort of lives they pursued with regards to careers, etc. As some of the main participants did make a decision to make a life for themselves there, it is apparent that several of the lesser-known individuals must have considered doing exactly the same, as many thousand british men were involved in the AZW, but any records of their lives after the campaign, I imagine, would be difficult to trace. As for deserters, well there could be many reasons for soldiers to feel it necessary to escape military service, fear, homesickness and the reason this topic is about, the idea of being 'seduced' I guess would be the most suitable word, by the African landscape, etc. However, to prove this reason is definitely not possible, as any court martial I think would have frowned on such a defence. Coll
27th January 2005	Coll Kris W Just noticed your message. Excellent stuff. The sort of information I was looking for. Thankyou Coll
27th January 2005	Peter Ewart Coll On this point about Tommies making their way back to SA - and the reasons for it - I'd thoroughly recommend Kipling's "Chant-Pagan - English Irregular, discharged." That'll lead you on to more of his ABW verse if you're not already familiar with it. Pity he was a bit young in 1879. Peter
30th January 2005	Ian This reply is not aimed at the Zulu war in particular. I have read of many desertions on home & foreign service during the Victorian era. Men stuck in barracks weeks on end or go in search of gold, diamonds etc ( but usually returned in time of war), or for other reasons. The journal of the Household Brigade 1874 says: out of 743 soldiers sentenced for desertion in the year of 1873, 229 alleged dislike of the army, 57 were annoyed by comrades or by how they were treated by their NCO's, 44 married without leave or permission (or had love affairs), 87 through drink, 18 through 'whim & folly' & 39 on a spree! The apparent figures for desertion in the 1870's is 20 per 1000 soldiers. The introduction of the Cardwell reforms may well have had an effect because by the 1890's it was down to 12 per 1000 men.
31st January 2005	Julian Whybra Coll, although Kipling's story was fictional it was based on a real-life story. An American adventurer, Josiah something, memory fails me, did go off into the wilds of Afghanistan in the 1820s and did end up as adviser to the Emir with responsibility for his army's training. There was a book published last year (2004) called 'Josiah something:the Man Who would be King' - I saw it in Watersone's in paperback just after Xmas. Try a search engine or Amazon for the details. Hope this helps.
31st January 2005	Julian Whybra Coll, although Kipling's story was fictional it was based on a real-life story. An American adventurer, Josiah something, memory fails me, did go off into the wilds of Afghanistan in the 1820s and did end up as adviser to the Emir with responsibility for his army's training. There was a book published last year (2004) called 'Josiah something:the Man Who would be King' - I saw it in Watersone's in paperback just after Xmas. Try a search engine or Amazon for the details. Hope this helps.
3rd February 2005	Coll Peter and Ian Thankyou for your replies. Julian I checked for this book and discovered that the full title is - Josiah The Great : The true story of the man who would be king. by Ben Macintyre. I have added this to my list of future books. Thankyou Coll