| Date | Original Topic |
| 11th March 2005 | 1877-79 Clasp
By Neil Raaff
Hi all,
Does anybody know where one can obtain a copy 1877-79 clasp for an SAGS?
The reason I ask is a friend requires one for a medal of his - it was a replacement medal and issued without clasp. I believe this was due to the fact that the mint only created as many of these rare clasps as was required to complete medals. I understand there were 8 only and no loose clasps where issued so the chances of finding an authentic one are almost non-existent (unless the original issued medal ever surfaces again of course!).
Any assistance would be greatly apprecaited.
Regards,
Neil |
| Date | Replies |
| 14th March 2005 | CLIVE DICKENS
Neil
Try worcsmedals.com they do quite a lot of medals and clasps.
Clive |
| 14th March 2005 | Neil Raaff
Hi Clive,
Thanks for the response. I gave them a call but unfortunately they don't do copies of it. I tried a few other medal dealers without any luck.
I think I'm really going to be up against it on this one. I very much doubt there will be modern copies due to the very limited number of these medals with this clasp issued. The same could be said for contemporary copies.
Perhaps a worthy silversmith/jeweller would be able to do something with a 1877-8 clasp? Not something I would really like to do as it would seem a shame to ruin a correct clasp - that and the fact an original clasp has a market value of about £100!!!
Regards,
Neil |
| 14th March 2005 | Neil Raaff
Correction to above...
I very much doubt there will be modern copies due to limited demand as a result of the small number of medals issued with this clasp. |
| 14th March 2005 | Martin Everett
Dear Neil,
Who was the original medal awarded to? Which clasp do you really require? The 1877-9 clasp are very very rare indeed. If so this puts the medal value into the same category as RD Defenders. |
| 14th March 2005 | Neil Raaff
Martin,
I don't know who the recipient was...I would have to inquire on that. I do know it was a replacement medal and quite late replacement in that the naming on it is as First War Medals (this replacement is apparently confirmed). I don't know whether that was claimed by the family or the actual recipient.
According to an article from the Spink Newsletter of August 2001 there were only eight of these awards all to men of the 2nd Cape Mounted Yeomanry. The names listed are:
Tpr William Earle*
Trumpeter Frank Long
Tpr John McColl
Tpr Alfred Maytham
Tpr Mathew Maytham
Sgt Thos Muldoon* (KIA)
Tpr Carl Nel
Tpr George James Weatherhead*
(*Medal not claimed and returned to Woolwich 1911)
A check of Don Forsyth's SAGS roll confirms all the above (except that Weatherhead's medal is not marked as returned - this could be the medal in question).
The Spink's article has a comparitive table of complete medals and loose clasps of the various types issued. The 1877-79 is by far and away the rarest with only 8 complete medals awarded with no loose clasps issued. Some 0.02% of the total issue of 36,644. I suppose this makes it considerably more rare than a RD Defender (but nowhere near as expensive!).
The next most scarce is the 1877 clasp. 153 Complete medals with no loose clasps representing 0.42% of the total issue.
The latest medal yearbook prices a colonial 1877-79 at £4,500-£6000 (it also lists a 'unique' to the British Army) and a colonial 1877 at £1,500-£1,800. A RD participant clocks in at a whopping £15,000-£18,000!
Don't know about you but I wouldn't mind having either in my collection!
Regards,
Neil |
| 15th March 2005 | Martin Everett
Dear Neil,
I now have my notes in front of me.
In Forsyth's Roll for the SAW Medal there is letter from The Royal Mint dated 1 June 1878 which states 'I must add, however, that while we have a die for the 1877-9 clasp we do not have a specimen of the clasp itself.' |
| 15th March 2005 | Robert James Howells
963 David Lewis aka James Owen of 2/24th was awarded the Medal for South Africa with clasp "1877-8-9 ". I paid a visit to the South Wales Borderers Museum in Brecon in early Feb. this year and was shown his actual medal. I would like to know how many of these clasps were actually issued. |
| 15th March 2005 | Robert James Howells
963 David Lewis aka James Owen of 2/24th was awarded the Medal for South Africa with clasp "1877-8-9 ". I paid a visit to the South Wales Borderers Museum in Brecon in early Feb. this year and was shown his actual medal. I would like to know how many of these clasps were actually issued. |
| 15th March 2005 | Neil Raaff
Robert,
According to the Spinks document I have there were 3525 complete medals with clasp "1877-8-9" and 15 loose clasps of the same issued. You can view the document at the following URL: http://www.spink.com/services/collectables/john_hayward/jh6.asp
However, the Don Forsyth lists 1,234 "1877-8-9" issued to colonials and 2,647 issued to imperial units. This gives a slightly higher total of 3,881. Perhaps the Spinks figure allows for reurned medals?
As can be seen from the figures this is by no measure a scarce clasp. I believe you will also find that, as they had been doing some hard campaigning in SA before the Zulu war, quite a large proportion of 24th of foot soldiers have the "1877-8-9" clasp. In fact I would say most of the Isandhlwana KIA's received that clasp.
Regards,
Neil |
| 15th March 2005 | Neil Raaff
Martin,
I had a better look at the Forsyth roll and he actually lists the one Imperial and two additional non-CMY colonial troops that received the "1877-9" clasp.
Regards,
Neil |
