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Date	Original Topic
16th February 2002	Isandlwana By Adrian Greaves Having just returned from a lengthy stay at Isandlwana and Rorke's drift, I have read much about my book in this forum. This was my first book to be published on the open market and I have to say, reading the comments, I have indeed learned a great deal. I fully accept that there were errors; some errors were due to me unforgivably having missed them in the proof reading stages - some occurred in the process of publication with the addition of titles which others believed were correct. Most errors were immediately obvious to me when I saw the initioal publication last October and, nevertheless, I am grateful to John Young and Julian Wymbra for bringing their own views to my attention. The errors I was aware of, and those now brought to my attention by John and Julian, have been amended and I sincerely hope that the 2nd edition will be as perfect as it is ever possible when printing/writing a book. It is not easy for anyone to produce a perfect first print. You will all be aware of a number of books recently published about the Zulu War, they, too, have suffered serious errors and mistakes, no doubt to the embarrassment of the authors concerned. Reading between the lines, it appears that my right to publish material relating to Durnford's orders is about to be challenged by Juliam Wymbra. My publishers have been provided with full details of my research to gether with a copy of the material provided to me by the RE museum at Chatham. This is being passed to Mr. Wymbra. Clearly, I have been deeply wounded by the nature and strength of their comments - but I have to accept that I have entered into a jealously guarded field and that others, rightly, will criticise and challenge me. If I continue writing about the Zulu War, I will certainly heed the advice of John and Julian. Much of what they have written, and will probably continue to write, has been very helpful. Adrian Greaves
Date	Replies
16th February 2002	Mike McCabe It is inevitably the case that a very interesting, stirring and evocative historical subject such as the Zulu War, now comprehensively covered by the increasingly competent and thorough work of author/researchers in the last 15 years,should be closely followed by a consequently much better-informed and questioning readership. There is an unquenchable appetite for new and more penetrating analysis of the known sources and for versions of the familiar story that provide much deeper insight. This, despite there having been very few new discoveries of further primary sources that might provide better collateral information to facilitate it. Expectations are therefore very high each time any new book is published, perhaps unreasonably so. This provides a most difficult challenge to each "new" author. Nevertheless, most readers would still prefer that authors and researchers should feel encouraged to write further accounts, and go on to provide their own insights and cogent interpretations. Let us hope that Mr Greaves will still feel that he can continue to respond over time to these hopes and appetitites with further written accounts, recognising the implacable and increasingly sharper expectations of readers. Various writers and researchers can undoubtedly draw on profound depths of detailed knowledge. A few, Cerberus-like, apparently guard the conventional wisdoms of the main historical themes for us all. Still, genuinely good accounts will always be welcomed and attract fulsome support from knowledgeable enthusiasts in a broad-based and increasingly numereous readership. I can only wish Adrian Greaves success in any new venture in what is clearly a very tough and competitive area of historical publishing more characterised by rocks than lighthouses! Mike McCabe
17th February 2002	CLIVE DICKENS Mike, I quite agree with whay you say, I truly hope that the criticism leveled at Adrian Greaves will not put off future authors on the subject, I myself am a comparitive newcomer to the Zulu War in detail and have learnt quite alot over recent weeks from various correspondents to discussion forum, and I thank them all, I have Adrian Greaves book and to be quite honest I really enjoyed it,I also have pre-ordered his forthcominh book on Rorkes Drift, and no doubt this book will also raise plenty of comment as long as it is fair and constructive it will be ok , but do let us keep it as fair comment after all intersted in the same subject.Clive
17th February 2002	Greg King I like reading accounts of this battle, and welcome anyone who has a different view of things,take heart Mr Greaves I`m sure all great writers get some stick at some time or another.I would like to see a book listing all the relics that have been found on the battlefield were they were found and when .There`s an idea up for grabs,all I ask for is a signed copy .
18th February 2002	John Young I will in time respond to Dr. Greaves's comments, but at this time I am awaiting further correspondence from his publishers, Cassell & Co., over a matter I have not mentioned on this forum. When I do so, I shall give my answer to his comment. On to Greg's point. Frankly Greg, you have an impossible dream. There are items from the battlefield scattered across the four corners of the World. As to where they were found and when, again, I venture impossible. I have items recovered from the battlefield by my Grandfather, whilst he was serving in the 2nd Anglo-Boer War. No-one thought to ask him in his lifetime, where did you find these? How about the trade in cartridge cases that earning Zulu kids a couple of Rand or so? Although discouraged now it carried on into the 1990's to my knowledge. How about the artefacts in places suchas the Talana Museum, Warriors Gate at the Old Fort in Durban, or the Museum of the Royal Regiment of Wales, Brecon - did anyone bother to record them, or where they had been found? No I think not. Isandlwana has been picked over since the 22nd January, 1879, no-one could ever know the whereabouts of all the battlefield debris. John Young, Chairman, Anglo-Zulu War Research Society.
19th February 2002	John Senior Dear Mr Greaves Error no.140: it’s Whybra not Wymbra. Despite your conciliatory tone I do feel that what’s at the heart of this debate is the quality of your scholarship. Given the large number of major and basic errors in your book, and given the alarming similarity between your text / line of argument and Jackson & Whybra’s article on the Durnford Papers, I think it would be appropriate and desirable for you to inform your readership, your AZWHS members, and potential students of Calamus International University (through which you arrange degrees in Zulu War Studies and of which you are associate professor in S. African history) precisely where and when you obtained your PhD and what was the title of your thesis. As a prospective student it might restore my faith in your organization.
19th February 2002	Julian Whybra I am honoured that John Young and I may well have become unpaid researchers-cum-proofreaders for the second edition of Mr Greaves�s book. I wonder if we�ll appear in the credits? I do not however look forward to his next offering. The lack of constructive coherent reasoning (unless one is banking on a readership unable to follow a line of thought), the poor historical research, and the nature of the errors (perhaps 5 of the 176 listed errors could conceivably be typos) do not speak of a high level of scholarship. J Senior is right to call this into question. In a book about a single Zulu War battle, getting the name of the Zulu commander wrong, the title of the British commander wrong, and the British line wrong are not typographical errors. I think Mr Greaves owes it to buyers of his book to give some details of his academic background. To Greg, whilst a �different view� is always to be welcomed, a rehash of an old discredited view with the facts wrong is not. I�m afraid history should not be a vehicle for unsubstantiated opinion. All your idols will have feet of clay. To Clive, if you enjoy fiction I suggest TH White�s �Farewell Victoria� which in its Zulu War part is based on Erskine�s account. Like John Young, I am constrained in a proper reply to Mr Greaves for the moment but will return.
19th February 2002	Peter Critchley Julian, You obviously have some serious issues to take up with Dr. Greaves. Can I publicly ask you not to use this forum to lambast Dr. Greaves over these issues. You have already listed all the errors for the benefit of the readers, which many have found interesting. I have, and will continue to take, a balanced view on this, but I am tiring of the venom with which you keep attacking. Save comments such as the above for private emails, or the courtroom. NOT ON RDVC.com - we are not your personal venting system! For other parties keen to question every element of Dr. Greaves educational and professional standing, I would suggest you email him directly. It is a BONUS that these topics can be discussed in such a public way, but I will not allow this site to become a public stone throwing session. Dr. Greaves has a Phd. If you want to find out more, Email him. By the way, I would like you all to realise I have never met Dr. Greaves and my position would be the same if it were anyone else. This statement IS final, and I think I'm being pretty tolerent about this whole affair. Webmaster
19th February 2002	Bob Bennett Peter, I think you are absolutely correct. To point out mistakes (obvious or otherwise) in a published work is one thing. To point out mistakes (rumor or otherwise) in an individual is another. I (and I believe most others) found the critique of Dr. Greaves work to be enlightening, but the critique of the man himself to be distasteful. Bob
19th February 2002	Julian Whybra Apologies if I've offended anyone. I would point out that the call came from another user of your website.
19th February 2002	Colin W Well said Bob Bennett. I have learnt a lot from the replies posted over the past weeks regarding Dr Greaves new book (which I have but have not read as yet) but now the argument has sunk to attacking Dr Greaves himself I have lost interest! Up until recently I had a high regard of some of the contibutors to this site. Will it surprise you to hear that that high regard has gone down just a bit? Some of the more recent postings are enough to put any prospective author off publishing any book about the Anglo Zulu War. Before I get accused of being biased, I am a member of both the AZWHS and the AZWRS.
20th February 2002	Clive Dickens Peter, Well spoken unbiased and constructive criticisism yes but no insults please, it's the gentlemans first book at least he has the gut's to write one, and I MYSELF DO LOOK FORWARD TO HIS NEXT BOOK. Clive Dickens
22nd February 2002	James Garland It's all very well to sympathise with Dr. Greaves and pat him on the back for trying so hard. But he didn't write his book for charity. He charged �14.99 for it. So if it isn't up to scratch it deserves to be lambasted. I can accept a few errors or typos but this was just careless work. Also why should I pay �14.99 for the second edition. If I buy a broken radio from an electrical shop I don't expect to be told " don't worry the mark 2 version will be much better, and by the way that'll be an extra �14." I won't be buying his forthcoming book on Rorkes Drift I'll just wait for the 2nd edition.
2nd March 2002	Edward Bear Perhaps it might indicate that the Zulus won! "Not a lot of people know that", as Michael Caine said, or was that in another film?
3rd March 2002	Julian Whybra James, I think I can help you out. On Saturday I took my copy back to Waterstone's (who'd ordered it for me) armed with receipt and list of errors and claimed that under the Sale of Goods Act 1972 it wasn't fit for the purpose for which it was bought (ie learning about Isandhlwana). They didn't argue and refunded my �14-99. I assume they'll be sending it back to Cassell's. I hope this helps.
28th April 2002	Stephen McDonald I totally agree with Bob Bennett's comment re: personal attacks are distasteful. In my view, Mr. Whybra should pay attention to this point. He loses much credibility in his arguments when they become personal and what might appear as small-minded.