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Date	Original Topic
5th December 2002	Two lads presumably little drummer boys of the 24th Regiment By PETER HARMAN I read in the book by Ian Knight (ZULU) Chapter Nine (The Butcher's Bill) That trooper Sam Jones of the N.M.R. saw the two bodies of these two drummer boys hung up on Butchers hooks which had been jabbed up under their chins, and then Disembowed and that circumstances showed they had been subjected to this treatment while still alive. Ian knight writes.But one wonders if the zulus would have known the significance of the butchers hooks,especially in the heat of the moment;and on what evidence Jones supposed that the boys were hung up living one can hardly imagine.Ian also writes a significant question mark must hang over the true fate of the 24th's boy soldiers.Was it possible that our own men carried out this inhuman treatment due to the two boys refusing to give out the badly needed ammunition. I guest one will never really know.
Date	Replies
5th December 2002	Keith Smith Peter If you are interested, I can let you have a paper I wrote a little while ago on this subject. Let me have your email address. Keith
5th December 2002	peter harman Keith. Yes I would be very interested in raeding your paper on this subject. Please send to [email protected]
5th December 2002	John Young Keith, I'm going to have to conduct a search to locate them, but hidden in this room somewhere, I've got a couple of other accounts about the drummer-boys, which aren't common ones. I'll try to find them, whilst "the Mem-Sahib" is out tomorrow night! John Young, A.-Z.W.R.S.
6th December 2002	James Garland Peter, I have trawled through my collection of accounts and letters and found the following references to Drummer boys at Isandhlwana. Col. Sgt. Bourne..."the last survivor was a drummer boy who flung his\short sword at a Zulu. " Sgt. Smith's letter....."The Zulus got hold of four boys of the band 1/24th, and cut them up in bits," .... Pte. Mason's letter to his sister..."There were 5 boys belonging to the Band, poor little fellows, they were left in camp, theblack buggers got the boys and tied them up by the hands to the wagons and butchered them, and cut their privates off and stuck them in their mouths."... All of the above accounts were by Rorke's Drift defenders who were not at Isandhlwana so their accounts are hearsay. They probably got their information from members of the relief column who had spent the night at Isandhlwana. With stories such as these doing the rounds it is hardly surprising that the Rorke's Drift defenders dispatched many wounded Zulus with the bayonet. James
6th December 2002	David Bluestein Keith: If you dont mind, I too would be very interested in reading the article you mention in regard to the 24th Drummer boys. Thanks in advance. My email is: [email protected]
6th December 2002	John Young I have manage to find one of the pieces I referred to above. From Vol. 5 Issue No. 2, of 'The Journal of the Anglo-Zulu War Research Society' published in 1997. Private Thomas Henry Makin, of the 1st (King's) Dragoon Guards recorded the following in his journal: '...23rd [May] Left camp before it was light and crossed the Buffalo River into Zululand, our orders were to advance on the scene of the massacre of the 24th Foot on the ill fated 22nd January 1879. After we passed through the Bashee Valley we stationed the remnant of the 24th Foot at Fugitives Drift, so that we should not be cut off in [the] rear. We also posted vedettes on all the commanding heights, the guard against a surprise. After marching about 3 hours, we saw the mountain illuming in the distance. But before we arrived near, we could see signs of the fearful havoc they had played with our poor soldiers, for there were tents, waggons and all the items incidental to a scene of which we were to be the spectators. The first we saw was a little drummer boy, his drum broken in, his head cut off and placed on his chest, his hands inserted between his ribs. We then came across the poor fellows laid in groups of 5 or 6, every one of which had been mutilated by those savages and all were laid naked, every article of clothing having been torn off them. We then came across a large wooden structure like a double scaffold, where two other boys had been hung up by their hands to the hooks and as they had decomposed, their bodies had fallen to the ground where they lay, with no friendly hand to give them a decent burial. ...' Keith don't know if you were aware of that piece? Hope you don't have to re-write anything. John Young, A.-Z.W.R.S.
6th December 2002	Colin Mathieson Gosh, Private Makin's report makes pretty grim reading doesn't it and brings home the horror of what was left out there months after the battle itself. Kinda causes a shiver down your back when you remember that these were real people he's talking about who obviously died a terrible death.......... Colin
8th December 2002	Clivew Dickens Peter I have the names of the "Boy" soldiers who lost their lives at Isandlwana they are all strangely listed with the "nd Bn of the 24th foot their nams are Boy GORDON, BOY GURNEY, and BOY McEWAN . Their ages I do not Know but at a guess I would think in Victorian times they would be anything between 11 to 16 years. There are Drummer listed with the 1st Bn 24THFOOT AT iSA
8th December 2002	Clivew Dickens Peter I have the names of the "Boy" soldiers who lost their lives at Isandlwana they are all strangely listed with the "2nd Bn of the 24th foot their nams are Boy GORDON, BOY GURNEY, and BOY McEWAN . Their ages I do not Know but at a guess I would think in Victorian times they would be anything between 11 to 16 years. There are Drummers listed with the 1st Bn 24th Foot at Isandlwana, and of course these also could have been boy soldiers, I am intersted in the Boy soldier side of things in particular because I was a "Boy" soldier myself joining at 15 years of age and I too became a drummer at 16 years of age I must add that none of this boy service served counts toward your total service in the army I myself served 28 years in total but only served 25 senior service. but I can tell you these young boys would have been very excited at the prospect of going along with the seniors into action against the Zulu fear would have only come to them at the actual time,I think that if you approach Maj Martin Everett he will only be too willing to give you all the details he has on these" Boy" soldiers of the 24th Regt Clive
8th December 2002	CLIVE DICKENS Sorry for the double letter my computer is playing tricks again Clive
8th December 2002	Geoff Melling The Zulus had a tradition of post-mortum body mutilation of enemies, i.e slitting open the stomach cavity of the dead as the warriors believed that this released the spirit of a brave opponent. Also I believe that many Zulus also collected body parts from an opponent, in particular lower jaw bones. I've not heard of the mutilation pre-death of the Boy soldiers and would be interested to hear more about this. The terror these poor kids must have felt is beyind belief.
11th December 2002	John Young I have found the second piece, this comes from a private collection, although there is a photocopy of this at Brecon, I'm told. It is hearsay evidence from one of the Rorke's Drift defenders writing home: '...There were 5 boys belonging to the Band, poor little fellows, they were left in camp, the black buggers got the boys and tied them up by the hands to the wagons and butchered them, cut their privates off and stuck them in their mouths. ...' John Young, A.-Z.W.R.S.
11th December 2002	John Young Having posted the above I have seen James has already posted the same text. But if anyone wants to know more about the man who wrote those lines, I suggest make sure to get Volume 8/2 of 'The Journal of the Anglo-Zulu War Research Society.' John Young, A.-Z.W.R.S.