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Date	Original Topic
1st January 2003	24th Officers Toast By Clive Dickens I have recently read an account of the battle of Chillianwala where both the 1st and 2nd Bn's of the 24th regt took part and where almost wiped out by Sikh forces some thirty years later on the eve of Isandlwana apparently Officers of the 1st and 2nd Bn's drank a toast that they would not suffer another Chillianwala , only one of those officer'as apparntly survived Isandlwana can anyone tell who this officer defaintly was. Clive
Date	Replies
1st January 2003	Martin Everett Dear Clive Battle of Chillianwallah (13th January 1849) - now in Pakistan. Only involved one batalion of the 24th (2nd Battalion was re-raised later in 1858). The battalion went into action 1,065 strong - 225 killed and 278 wounded. Both Colour ensigns were killed, only the Regimental Colurs saved by Pte Perry. This Colour now in Brecon Cathedral. Regimental Memorial in the ground of the Royal Hospital Chelsea along with the Sikh guns they attacked. Events somewhat mirror those 30 years later (1879) and those 40 years earlier at Talvera (1809). Back to your point, the regimental records do record that before Glyn's Column left Helpmakaar, the officers of 1/24th having a few bottles of wine remaining invited the officers of the 2nd Battalion to dine with them the date being close to the anniversary of Chillianwallah (13th January). I expect the event took place sometime in December 1878 as by 8 January the 1/24th were at Rorke's Drift ready to cross the Buffalo River by 11th. A toast was proposed at the end of the dinner by Captain Wm Degacher supported by Lt. Porteous 'That we may not get into such a mess, and have better luck this time'. Only a few days later, not one of the 1st Battalion officers who had drunk the toast was left alive, and five officers of the 2/24th had also been killed. There is NO list of the officers who were actually present when the toast was drunk. We can assume that the survivors were those 2/24th officers with Lord Chelmsford on 22 January plus of course Gonville Bromhead. And of course 1/24th officers with B Company (in Pondoland), D & G Companies (still marching up from PMB) were not present. It is diffcult to judge whether Glyn or ES Browne were present when the toast was drunk. At a stretch of the truth, I suppose you could say that Melvill was a survivor of the battle of Isandhlwana. I trust this helps. Perhaps the experts could come up with a more accurate date when the offciers of 1st and 2nd Bns dined togther at Helpmakaar or Helpmekaar (as JY prefers). Every good wish for 2003. Martin
1st January 2003	Clive Dickens Martin Thank you very much for the additional information it enlighten's the subject greatly Clive
2nd January 2003	John Young Dear Martin, It is not my preference but that of the people of whose language it is. You may recall I was lambasted by a correspondent on this forum for allowing the use of 'Helpmakaar' in Lee Stevenson's book. As to an exact date, I can't offer one, F.W.D. Jackson in his 'Hill of the Sphinx' can only at best put it shortly before the anniversary date of 13th January. John Young, A.-Z.W.R.S.
7th January 2003	Julian Whybra Clive, the 1/24th officer was Browne, being MI he was out with Chelmsford on the 22nd.