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Date	Original Topic
12th April 2003	2nd Lt EH Dyson By Peter Ewart Does anyone have an Army List (or any other source) of the right date to help me with career details etc., please, of: 1. Col John Daniel Dyson, still alive 1873 2. Major Edwards Dyson (father of EHD, who was KIA Isandlwana) I would go into details a bit more but I've just typed out a long(winded?) posting but was booted offline by AOL two seconds before sending it, so am still in swearing mode!!! I hope shortly to locate any obit which might have appeared on EHD in the local press so if any one was interested (Martin?, if NH didn't dig out anything?) I'd be happy to oblige with a copy. Thanks again to Ian Woodason, KLH, for pointing out to me recently on this forum the memorial windows to Dyson at Womenswold. This info side-tracked me into a bit of local digging on his home and family. Peter
Date	Replies
13th April 2003	Martin Everett Dear Peter, There is nothing immediately to hand - other than the entries in Mac & Shad and The Noble 24th. I can look up the Army Lists but I do not have a full run. I suggest you look up the 1861 census for Canterbury in your local County Archives or reference library for starters. Then local births, deaths and marriages.
13th April 2003	Peter Ewart Many thanks, Martin. Mac & Shad & The Noble 24th provide some reasonable background info but my enquiries so far indicate there was probably no Kentish connection before 1870/1. Col JD Dyson (above) had the house, Denne Hill, built in 1871 by a fairly well known architect who designed a number of Kentish mansions. There was a previous dwelling owned by someone else (another JP). Not surprisingly, the place was uninhabited in the 1871 census also the farm was occupied. Major Edwards Dyson was inhabiting this "handsome modern residence" by the mid-1870s and remained for about ten years, after which a Richard Godfrey Dyson succeeded him there. Poor EHD's younger brother, Francis Julian Dyson, was only 15 & a pupil at Winchester College when he received news of the disaster. It looks as if he was a contemporary there of Thomas Pakenham, Lord Longford (POW @ Lindley, KIA Gallipoli etc) and Francis later went up to Oxford, became ordained & was, for a few years, the incumbent at Womenswold itself, occupying Denne Hill and, later, the farm. He was born in Leicestershire and, given EHD's own peripatetic childhood, it looks as if the family travelled a good deal in the 1850s and 1860s at least. (There are also some spurious "entries" on the IGI which are clearly erroneous). Looks as if Dyson came from a military family - and his father was emphatically not the disreputable Birmingham gun-runner in William Clive's yarn "The Tune that they Play." !!! (He does admit to author's licence, to be fair, and it's a good read). The village hall was still known as Dyson Hall as late as 1969. The windows in EHD's memory are only a couple of hundred yards from the highest spot for miles around, providing terrific views. An ancestor of my wife's was postmaster there at the time so presumably handled the dreaded letter or telegram? (Her claim to fame). Anyway, if I track down anything in the local press I'll send a copy to you at the Museum. Frank Emery covered the Dover Express but possibly not the Kentish Gazette (publ. C'bury). He died, of course, on the eve of his 21st birthday. Peter
13th April 2003	John Young Peter, The only entry in the Army Lists I have is short and sweet. 'Majors who have Rtired by Sale, by Commulation, & c.' 'Dyson, Edward, 3rd Dragoon Guards....8 Apr. 53.' I do have a photograph of said Major Dyson, in my collection, taken c. 1860's, by Burton & Co., Haymarket, Leicester. John Y.
13th April 2003	Peter Ewart Many thanks John. Clearly a candidate at the very least. A quick surf finds that chap dancing at a ball at the Wolverhampton Exchange in Feb 1852 with other 3DG officers. So you may be sitting on a snap of EHD's father. (Both father and son's name is found recorded variously as Edward or Edwards, which is not unusual or surprising). I'll keep going when I get odd moments. Thanks again, Pete.
14th April 2003	Martin Everett Dear Peter, I can confirm JY findings. John Daniel Dyson was Major 3DG 19/6/1846 and retired as Colonel 28/11/1954. Edwards Dyson was Capt 3DG 17/3/1843 and retired as Major 8/4/1854 Regimental Museum is QDG in Cardiff Castle. Their contact details are on the AMOT site: www.armymuseums.co.uk
14th April 2003	Martin Everett Peter, Sorry, I entered the retirment dates incorrectly - should be JDD 28/11/1854 ED 8/4/1853
14th April 2003	Peter Ewart Martin Many thanks yet again - I'm very grateful indeed for this and for the trouble you've taken. The details which you and John have dug out at present point very strongly to the 3DG officers being father and relative (uncle?) of young Dyson of the 24th, especially given the same regt in which they served and the fact that the Major was given as "Edwards." Only inbuilt caution & a liking for accuracy prevents me from saying already that the connection is now proven, as one does see identical names given to officers who prove to be cousins, etc. (Maj-Gen CE Luard, RE [x2!] was an example of this). However, picking up the Colonel's and Major's deaths and their wills & obits will sort it out, as well as EHD's if there is one. I suppose, given his continental upbringing and attendance at Wimbledon School and Sandhurst, young Dyson never really lived at the house and can only have visited his father there very occasionally. However, I did go over there at dusk today to sit and stare at the mansion from a distance, which stands in many acres of its own parkland with a drive which must be well over half a mile long. The whole estate is so isolated you wouldn't know it was there, even though it is fairly "well known." The rear of it must back onto the dual carriageway A2, from which it is invisible. (I didn't dare motor more than half-way up the drive but I may approach the owner eventually). While gazing at the building, I pondered on the news of "Isandula" reaching the Major in his study, probably via The Times; the knowledge that the 24th had suffered, and later the confirmation that his eldest son was dead & not yet 21. From W'wold you can just see Ramsgate, 10 or a dozen miles away, where Curling's family were no doubt also anxious at first, and in Canterbury itself the Buffs depot can hardly have known yet that their lot were safe, given the lack of geographical or strategic knowledge about the campaign over here. At King's School I suppose Bradstreet was forgotten and no-one knew he was involved anyway. But just down the road in Dover the 24th had been popular locally (yes, cricket matches!) and I think one or two NCOs married Dover girls, so this part of East Kent was hardly unaffected, although you could multiply that a hundredfold in Brecknockshire & Monmouthshire, I suppose. Peter
25th April 2003	rai england hi all, don't know what woody sent you from the KLH, john danial dyson d.wimbledon b.31 dec 1867 edwards dyson of denne hill kingstone canterbury buried 5 april 1886 age 70 north part churchyard tomb sacred to the memory of caroline agnes the dear wife of major edwards dyson formerly of the 3rd dragoon gds who died the 9th day of january 1870 aged 36 years also of edwards dyson jp of willow hall and denne hill formerly major 3rd dragoon gds in which regiment he served 22 years born in 1815 died at denne hill 30 march 1886. sacred to the memory of john daniel dyson denne hill east kent Lt col commanding the 3rd dragoon gds in which regiment he served for 28 years and colonel in the army, JP, who died the 27th day of december, 1875 aged 67 years. this memorial is at St Mary's church wimbledon
25th April 2003	Peter Ewart Very many thanks for these details, Rai. (Woody had helpfully tipped me off about the memorial windows to Dyson at Womenswold church, nr C'bury, not far from me, during the recent discussion on Capt Bradstreet, N'castle Mted Rifles, who had attended King's School C'bury, and this encouraged me to do a bit of digging locally in odd moments). This MI more than confirms what JY & Martin had culled from their Army Lists & I'm therefore very grateful. I'd already checked the burial registers of W'wold and Kingston (Denne Hill straddles the parish boundaries of both) but clearly father and uncle(?) were buried in Wimbledon, where EHD was educated. Last week, without yet actually tackling any particular genealogical sources, I managed to trace forward a couple of generations via EHD's siblings, mainly via public school rolls, university registers & Crockford, so I haven't yet dismissed the possibility of tracking down surviving family papers. The exact dates of death provided will help on obit searches & if I find anything interesting I'll pop up here again, although when I'll fit such searches in I don't yet know. How you three (& your various ORs!) manage to run so many of them to ground is - to put it mildly - admirable. Thanks again. Peter