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Date	Original Topic
9th May 2003	A QUIZ for the weekend. By Peter Ewart I doubt if these will stretch the boffins! (A) George Smith conducted the burial service above Fugitives' Drift - but how is he (indirectly) linked to another very well known fugitive? (B) Rorke's Drift & Isandlwana might be said to have a link with a town in the Pas de Calais. What is it? (There is another link to the same place if put in a certain way, but it would be a give-away to one or two contributors, so I'll leave that for the moment!) Not expecting the queries to survive the weekend! Peter
Date	Replies
9th May 2003	Dave Nolan For (B) - Le Cateau - where General Smith-Dorrien (who had escaped Isandlwana as a Lieutenant - and he had been at RD earlier, borrowing pistol ammunition form Bromhead) led a rear guard action in the retreat from Mons August 1914? Dave
9th May 2003	Peter Ewart Dave Getting warm - on the additional bit of the link anyway, which I deliberately left out. The additional bit does involve S-D, but I think Le Cateau was, & is, in Belgium. The Bromhead link is interesting though - didn't know about that! So both A & B survive at the moment but the additional link in (b) does involve S-D & his nemesis, so will help - but is not necessarily needed to get the answer though). Peter
9th May 2003	Martin Everett Peter, (A) Did Padre Smith conduct the marriage service of Melvill to Sarah Elizabeth Read in Feb 1876? A wild guess I have to say.
9th May 2003	Martin Everett Peter, Sorry Read should be Reed
9th May 2003	Peter Ewart 'Fraid not, Martin. (I suppose he could have done, but I doubt it & that's not it). This fugitive is a totally different chap. And I've just thought of another "link" between the FD burial & the fugitive I'm after but I don't want to overdo it! Dave, slightly misread part of your answer. Thought for a moment you meant there was another Bromhead involved with S-D at Le Cateau, but of course you meant during S-D's visit to RD on the morning of 22nd.
9th May 2003	Dave Nolan Peter, Thought I had it there - as Le Cateau-Cambrensis (to give it its full name) is most definitely in the Pas de Calais region of France (Just across the border from Belgium!) Dave
10th May 2003	Peter Ewart Dave Woops, so it is! I see, looking more closely, that the border slips between Mons & Le Cateau. However, it's not the town I'm looking for, although ruminating on S-D, II Corps and French will definitely lead you there! The one who cracks it, however, will find a slightly earlier link between the name of this town and RD & Isandlwana. Incidentally, in (A) the (very!) well known fugitive was not fleeing from Isandlwana. Peter
10th May 2003	John Young Peter, In answer to (B) St. Omer is in the Pas de Calais, the birthplace of the Degachers. Also linked to Isandlwana & Rorke's Drift, and not forgetting his forgetten work of Ulundi, by the artist Alphonse de Neuville. John Y.
10th May 2003	John Young Peter, With regard to your comment of the 10th May, you've thrown me somewhat, with the 'not fleeing' bit! Smith obviously had links with "Durnford's First Disaster", which brings in various links - Durnford himself; his horse "Chieftain"; Simeon Kambule's father; Charles Raw - to list but a few. That is if said 'fugitive' was on the British/Colonial side of the battle. Or could it be that the 'fugitive' was from the other side of the fence? John Y.
10th May 2003	Peter Ewart John Thought you'd pick up on the St Omer connection - but, again, it's not the town I'm after. With regard to the "not fleeing" - he was fleeing, but not from Isandlwana. By following Smith backwards a bit, you've got warmer, but there is no actual direct link with those involved in the Bushman's River Pass. OK, this is what I'll do. I'm just going out to mow the lawn & then I'm playing cricket all afternoon, followed by a few jars. I'll leave a couple of clues here (could mention more but don't want to make it TOO easy!) (A) The name of a certain location (Smith will lead you back in time there) will hopefully make you think of a VERY well known fugitive. As it happens, close to that certain location is another place equally connected with this fugitive and also linked with the grave above FD, so that's another link and another clue in addition to my original. Here is the give-away. In both (A) and (B) - think 2ABW! So now I don't expect the questions to survive the mowing, let alone my cricket! Peter
10th May 2003	John Young Peter, Estcourt, Smith's parish was later linked by a railway line to Frere. Believe it or not there is an Estcourt Brewery in the Pas de Calais. A certain young man by the name of Winston Spencer Churchill was travelling on an armoured train in that neck of the woods when it was attacked. He was taken prisoner, escaped and made his way on another train to Lourenco Marques. (Sorry the forum format would not permit the accented 'c'.) John Y.
10th May 2003	Peter Ewart John Spot on. The extremely well known fugitive of Nov/Dec 1899 was one W S Churchill, who had been captured at (or just outside) Estcourt, where Smith had been an Anglican missionary from 1872 to 78. His escape from Pretoria & subsequent successful return to the fray in Natal made him even more well known. (My next clue might have had to dwell on the 4th Hussars or 21st Lancers). As I mentioned above, there is another place close by, and you raised the name of the little town of Frere. The additional "link" with Smith's/Churchill's Estcourt/Frere connection which occurred to me later was Sir Bartle's erection of the cross on the FD grave. Given that our fugitive was 50% Yankee I thought one of our friends over the pond might have claimed him. Fancy there being an Estcourt Brewery in the P de C. (Who's been desperately googling, then?) How about this for a coincidence today? In the cricket club bar tonight I was introduced to a Springbok, a very nice chap from Pretoria. Almost the first thing he mentioned was WSC's escape from that place!!! So - one down, one to go. Joubert captured the district (Ngutu Magistracy) containing RD & Isandlwana in Jan 1900. Robbed the farms and missions of stores and horses before Buller's lot relieved both RD & Isandlwana in May. (One or two skirmishes between British & Boer took place here & around 30 British soldiers are apparently buried near RD). The answer is in the name of the Colonel whose smallish force re-took RD, Isandlwana & surounding area.. (And this, in turn, will bring in S-D again [WW1, not 2ABW])! Peter
12th May 2003	Peter Ewart When Buller moved to retake that part of Natal occupied by the Boers he moved onto the Biggarsberg in May 1900 in a (sort of) pincer movement involving Thorneycroft and, on the right, Col Bethune's Horse. So - yes, BETHUNE!!! His M.I. helped to recapture Helpmekaar & he moved on to R/Drift & Isandlwana, later Nqutu and on up to Vryheid, clearing out the retreating Boers as he went. The Boers had lectured the Zulus at Isandlwana in Jan, reminding them whose side they should be on - & Bethune addressed them at R/Drift in May to congratulate them on their loyalty!!! The various small skirmishes which then took place between Helpmekaar and Vryheid included the ambush at Sheepers Nek, near the Dundee/Vryheid track, when some of his mounted forces had gone on ahead of Bethune. The 27 British soldiers are apparently buried there but there was an immediate plan to commemorate them in the then new church at St Augustine's, R/Drift (this was not at R/Drift itself but actually halfway between R/Drift & Vecht Kop & one mile from Hlubi's new home, but known to the SPG as "Rorkes Drift" even though the Swedes were actually at the Drift itself). So Bethune is our Pas de Calais town. And (according to Smithers) it is incidentally where Smith-Dorrien's II Corps HQ had moved to by the time French visited him & the fateful interview took place which French later used to malign him. Only a minor episode in the Boer War but a very difficult few months for the inhabitants of RD & Isandlwana, black & white, who weren't allowed to move from their homes for four months. Bethune, of course, took part in more important engagements during the war. Peter
13th May 2003	Dave Nolan Peter, It is so easy once one has been told the answer! Dave
14th May 2003	Peter Ewart Dave Yes, I know what you mean. If it's familiar, it seems easy, whereas if you just happen not to have come across that particular point, it's ridiculously obscure! I didn't think these were obscure (at the time!) & imagined they'd be wrapped up quickly, but I suppose it just depends. All good fun & it keeps the old grey matter ticking over. Perhaps someone will set another? Thanks for putting me right on Le Cateau. To be honest, looking a bit more carefully, I can see it's even further from the border than I first thought, so your diplomacy is admirable! Peter