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Date	Original Topic
17th May 2003	comparison of photographs By neil aspinshaw study the two famous images of the wagons abandoned at isandlwana, taken by Frederick Lloyd in 1879. (a good book to view these is James W Bancroft Rorkes Drift, page 106/107 ). The image of the dragoon, erroneously listed as a sentry, (he is holding a shovel,preumably buring remains), has a wagon behind him with the box lid open. Now study the larger panoramic image above, with the nek and the resting horsemen, look with a glass to the bottom right hand corner, the same waon can be clearly seen with the box lid open, does any one agree with me on this. If so this will give you a good orientation of the wagon park.
Date	Replies
18th May 2003	Julian Whybra This is a different waggon - look at the disselboom ends of both and compare the postions of the surrounding waggons and their relationship to the slope of Stony koppie. It clearly cannot be the same waggon - unless of course it was moved between photographs - not very likely though.
18th May 2003	neil aspinshaw Thanks julian. Not convinced?, look at what appears to be carcase remains of the draft oxen firstly, also both wagons which angle at about 45 degrees to this one have wheel guards, both in alignment. now look at the larger image there are actually three wagons, with two almost parrallel, study the wheel alignment, the former has the drive axle (smaller at the front) at the right. and there are three sets of wheels. finally look beyond, what appears to be a white painted wagon has its front axle at 90 degrees to the wagon front, this can be compared with its rear wheels. we walked the fugitives trail this january, i was surprised how it actually falls away just after the saddle and the kopjie. it is feasible some of the wagons may have been moved, on the 21st May, a patrol in force under Frederick Marshall, visited the site with the intent of burying bones, and " bringing away serviceable wagons". photographs of isandlwana are misleading, these are well beyond the tent line, almost over the nek. I took several pictures front the new car park on the nek. and would guess most of these originals are well over the brow, with the larger taken from malhabamkhosi (stony koppie).
19th May 2003	Julian whybra Intriguing. Try this. Measure in from the bottom right hand corner of the large photo exactly 5.7 cm. Doesn't that appear to be a soldier standing there with his back to us and his white helmet just below the waggon wheel? Or is it just the shading of the ground or mere fancy?
19th May 2003	Melvin Hunt Neil, Take a look at the two Ians' book "Then and Now". Compare the photos on pages 80 and 81. Then compare the photos on pages 84 and 85. I could be wrong but I think that the Lloyd photo of the dragoon was taken near the cluster of cairns near the fence on the left of the photo as shown on page 85. The wagon you suggest is the same in the resting horsemen photo should therefore be to the left of the panorama rather than to the right. (Don't you just love all this Isandlwana jigsaw puzzling?) Cheers Mel.
20th May 2003	neil aspinshaw Melvin. the main clue lies in the wagon immediately behind the dragoon, the wagon has three boxes on it, the knight castle picture has chopped half of this wagon off. the box on the right of the wagons' lids is open, you can make out the tee hinges on the inside lid. also the lid is slightly wedge shaped. this is very clear on the dragoon picture. next count the wagons on the right. there are three parked close together. you can make out the 3 pr of wheels. In the Knight castle picture there is a dragoon beding over just in front of this wagon, and another standing. bearing in mind the exposure time on old images these men would have moved off well before the next picture had been taken. The final piece in the jigsaw are the wagons on the bottom left, one has fallen in the donga and is "tails up"is this is the same wagon on P82, (knights earlier book ZULU windrow and green 1992 p122 has a better image of this showing the immediately wagon behind and around it.) I believe the "now" image is actually this spot where the fence now runs, not where the dragoon stands. ah well!, this just means another trip back to check it out again.....what a bummer!.
20th May 2003	Melvin Hunt Neil, Yep, Your right. I shall just have to make another trip back to check this out too. See you out there. Now, just got to convince the wife...........!!!