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Date	Original Topic
14th October 2003	What the real Hook would think of Zulu By Pauline Vanila I think Hook would think it was funny as in his portrayment in Zulu. What'll you all be thinking that hook would think?
Date	Replies
15th October 2003	Martin Everett Dear Pauline, If you do a 'google' search on this site from the home page - you will find your question has been discussed before on this forum.
15th October 2003	Paul Whiting Dear Pauline I dont know how you feel about his portrayment in Zulu but in my eyes he was the "true" hero of the film because he didnt want to fight but in the end saved a lot of people. Of course the film is not totally true but I personally like to think that the real Hook was a working class hero just as in the film and judging by the massive crowd at his funeral he really was such a man.
21st October 2003	Martin Heyes Pauline I'm not sure what the "real" Hook would have thought of the way he was portrayed in the film "Zulu," but I do know that at least one of his daughters, (I believe he had two), was mortifiedl!! I base this statement on a story told to me many years ago by a Major who had been a subaltern in the S W Borderers in 1964 when the film was released. Officers of the Regiment attended the premiere at the Odeon in Leicester Square, and somebody had had the bright idea of inviting one of his daughters (or perhaps both, I don't know) to the event. Although she wouldn't really have remembered her father too well, (Hook died when she was quite young), apparently she staggered out of the cinema somewhat gobsmacked, (to use that dreadful modern expression), at the way her father had been portrayed!! The expression "spinning in a grave" springs to mind!!
21st October 2003	Martin Heyes Pauline I'm not sure what the "real" Hook would have thought of the way he was portrayed in the film "Zulu," but I do know that at least one of his daughters, (I believe he had two), was mortifiedl!! I base this statement on a story told to me many years ago by a Major who had been a subaltern in the S W Borderers in 1964 when the film was released. Officers of the Regiment attended the premiere at the Odeon in Leicester Square, and somebody had had the bright idea of inviting one of his daughters (or perhaps both, I don't know) to the event. Although she wouldn't really have remembered her father too well, (Hook died when she was quite young), apparently she staggered out of the cinema somewhat gobsmacked, (to use that dreadful modern expression), at the way her father had been portrayed!! The expression "spinning in a grave" springs to mind!!
23rd October 2003	Marc Jung Pauline, I know it's stating the obvious, but if I were he, and there's no way I would be a s brave as he, I would be unbelieveably pee-ed off.
28th October 2003	virginia As hookie was portayed asa lovable rogue in the film and was proved to be the true hero at Rourkes Driftt ,through sheer courage strength stamina and determination, I like to think that Hookie would find the protrayal very amuseing and would high delight in correcting the scrript and the films misgivings at every opportunity.However , many of our heroes choose not to comment on their exploits and therefore i would anticipate that the real "Hookie" would pass no cpmment knowing that Bakers "Hookie" has kept him in our hearts and minds forever . Baker points out Hooks heroism loud and clear When Surgeon Reynolds tells Hook "Brandy is for heros !......"The last time we see hook in action he is toasting his own self within the flames of a heros hell .
29th October 2003	Sheldon Hall Actually, Virginia, it's the late Sergeant Maxfield that he's toasting, not himself (I assume you're referring to the brandy, not the flames!). Incidentally, please don't give all the credit (or blame) to Stanley Bakerfor the portrayal of Hook - it was John Prebble who wrote the script, Cy Endfield who directed the film, and James Booth who played the part!
29th October 2003	Diana Blackwell Pauline, I think the only honest answer is, nobody will ever know. Virginia, You go girl! Sheldon, I got a laugh out of your "toasting" pun...but in all seriousness, could you explain why you think he's toasting Maxfield? I've always read this scene more or less the way Virginia does. Since Hook doesn't say a word here, our only clues are visual and contextual. True, Maxfield has just died. But look at Hook's smile when he first grabs the bottle: bereavement doesn't seem to be uppermost in his mind. Then, when he drinks, he seems to me to be expressing defiance (of Williams's warning, punishment, and death itself), not sorrow or comradeship or anything else related to Maxfield. Of course, one of the great strengths of this scene (and much of "Zulu") is that is is not over-explained, but nearly silent, opening the door to multiple interpretations.
30th October 2003	Sheldon Hall Diana, I must admit that I'm drawing on directions in the screenplay (which I don't have immediately to hand, otherwise I'd quote the relevant passage), which indicates that it is Maxfield that Hook is toasting (in a characteristically defiant, unorthodox manner) rather than himself. A line that was cut after Hook escapes from the hospital (in the finished film he is not seen again until the roll call) was Hook's 'They've killed my bloody sergeant!' Like much of the script this is a bit too 'on-the-nose' and I think the more oblique brandy scene in the film as it stands is an improvement. However, look closely at Hook's eyes as he pauses and reflects after taking a swig: there are tears running down his face, not entirely due to the effects of smoke and fire! More fuel for your homoerotic subtext, perhaps....
30th October 2003	Steven Sass If I'm not mistaken there is a short scene after the escape from the hospital in which Hook, outlined in the darkness behind some mealie bags, stares at the burning hospital and says "Do you think he wanted it this way?" I never quite understood who the "he" was and what was meant by the question. My guess is that there were related lines that were edited out. Any thoughts?
30th October 2003	Sheldon Hall Oops! I had forgotten that scene.... I can check the script, but offhand I don't recall there being much more than this. The line Stephen mentions certainly refers to Maxfield.
30th October 2003	Melvin Hunt Sheldon I raised this puzzling reference "do you think he wanted it this way" in a previous thread. I get the impression that there has been quite a lot of the relationship between Hook and Maxfield cut from the film. Do you have the original script to confirm this? I always thought that the "tears" on Hooks face as he drank the Brandy were due to the smoke!
31st October 2003	Diana Blackwell Sheldon, After posting my last entry here I watched that scene again. Hook's face after he swallows is very solemn, especially when he looks downward for a moment, and the streaks on his face do appear to be tears. (Like Melvin Hunt, I had always taken them for sweat...but on closer examination they're not dripping off his forehead or nose, they're running down from his eyes). Unquestionably you're right, and thanks for sharing!!! As enlightening as this new perspective is, I still don't think it's the whole story. To make the brandy scene PURELY about Maxfield doesn't do justice to its emotional richness. It just doesn't feel that way. Once again, when Hookie grabs that bottle, his face registers base pleasure; he sure doesn't look like he's thinking about Maxfield then! When Williams comes back and yells at Hook, his response (stubborn scowl, deliberate movements) is plainly and coolly defiant. Maxfield seems to come into Hookie's thoughts while he drinks and immediately after (solemn, reverent, eyes downcast). But surely, mingled with the sorrowful "he's gone" motif is an "I'm still here" motif of triumph, relief, and thankfulness. It's a pretty rich, complex scene, emotionally, as well as an unforgettable one, and your revelation has added a whole new dimensiuon to it. But overall, the main thing I get from the scene when I watch it is still a sense of Hook's strong, rebellious spirit. Having gone through hell unscathed, but still wound up to a fever pitch, he seems filled to overflowing with raw power. The context of all that power is what makes his unexpected tenderness so very appealing (even when it registers only subliminally). Zulu pauses here to enshrine Hook in an aura of glory, to create a rocketburst of visual beauty adequate to the heroism it symbolizes. Take away the power/defiance/triumph, leaving only the tenderness, and Hookie dwindles into a sensitive guy who's in touch with his feelings (aaaargh!!!!). I asked James Booth what the brandy scene meant to him (part of an ongoing email interview destined for my fan site) and he replied, "...a final finger up at military authority..." "Fuel" is right! The recurring phrase ""MY bloody sargeant" interests me greatly. Whence the poseessive? Why was Maxfield Hook's special, personal sargeant? Why did Maxfield take ongoing responsibility for motivating and disciplining Hook? Is this grounded in any real military practice? Do sargeants and privates get paired off as "teams" in real life? Or is this a personal thing between them? Maybe one of the forum participants with a knowledge of the army can answer these questions.
31st October 2003	Diana Blackwell Sheldon, One more thing. Without taking anything away from what you have said about Maxfield, the brandy scene is also the fulfillment of a separate story arc begun when Surgeon Reynolds withheld medicinal brandy from Hook because "brandy's for heroes." Viewed in this context, Hook's insistance on drinking is to some extent an insistance on his just deserts, arising from an awareness of his own heroism. Hence, to some slight extent, toasting himself. What do you think?
31st October 2003	Sheldon Hall Melvin, It's not so much that material has been cut as that the script was a long time in development and the Hook-Maxfield relationship (among other things) underwent quite a bit of transformation. There were at least five drafts of the "original" script and the first is quite different from the last (not least in the portrayal of Hook's character and role in the action). All this and more will be revealed in my forthcoming book on the film, so I don't want to go into too many details! Diana, I don't know about real military practice, but there were quite a few NCO-private/father-son relationships in the various ZULU script drafts, some of which were indeed altered or cut from the final version. You're quite right to stress the complexity of the brandy scene, and I too had always thought primarily of the drinking as a defiance-of-authority gesture (which of course it is as well). To add to your reading, Hook's breaking of the bottle neck follows immediately from Williams' shout that it's a flogging offence - the gesture seems to say, "Good! Let them do their worst!" But the reflective pause afterwards returns him to thoughts of Maxfield. The line about "my bloody sergeant" was introduced at an early script stage, before the Hook-Maxfield relationship had been fully developed. My hunch is that the implications of the line were taken up and explored, then the line itself dropped when it seemed too obvious and uncharacteristically sentimental for Hook actually to say it (though the feeling remains).
31st October 2003	Sheldon Hall Diana, Sorry, just read your "One more thing" after sending my last message. Good point. It also parallels a similar use of Reynolds in a brief scene which WAS cut from the final shooting script (it may well have been filmed and then dropped). The surgeon visits the other hospital room and tells Schiess to stay off his leg if he doesn't want to lose it. Schiess's own subsequent heroism can therefore also be seen partly as a gesture of defiance towards Reynolds (a sort of "Howzat?!").
7th March 2005	Simon Copley There are a number of other father/son relationships in the film namely Bourne/Cole, Allen/Hitch and possibly Dalton/Cook and Windridge/Owen?