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Is it genuine?
Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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For the interest of the movie buffs out there, I thought I'd post this link to our auction site called Trade Me ( a bit like Ebay). I just wondered if it could be genuine. It's supposed to be a jacket from the movie Zulu Dawn but we only have his word for it. Sorry, only residents of NZ and Australia can bid online.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail.asp?I'd=41027045

Dawn
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Brecon
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Dear Dawn,

I have examples of the uniforms worn in Zulu Dawn in the museum collection. This one does look very similar - but it is always difficult to tell from a photograph. However, I have to say that these uniforms whilst looking OK on film are of minimal quality. The badges are plastic. So I think you have to regard them more as a curiosity than something which will look as good as an original from the period.

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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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Diana Blackwell


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 13
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Judging from the drape of the fabric, this jacket would appear to be made from a flimsy (cotton?) material, not the substantial wool or wool-blend one would expect for a dress uniform. The jacket also seems to lack the internal structural components that give shape to tailored garments. (Cheap-o! It reminds me of the tunic my mom sewed for me for Halloween in 1965.)
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Brecon
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Diana - Correct - that was what I was trying to say! If someone was looking for a jacket which was close that actually worn in 1879, then they may be disappointed.

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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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lossie


Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 2
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Hi all new to this forum, on the matter of props etc.. from the film I bought about 6 years back a box of live blanks that were supposedly the spare set for Michael Caines revolver,they came from the property master John Poyner and are signed by Lady Baker , Of course I'm not positive that they are genuine , But Lady Baker did actualy sign them in front of me and John Poyner .
Just for interest they are KYNOCH 38" S&W BLANK REVOLVER CARTRIDGES. and there are 50 in the box,If anyone out knows more about these and if they were the type used in this film I would be grateful,also what value to a collector they would be ? ( not that I would get rid of them)
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ralph dyer


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 51
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lossie,
indeed i remember the said blank cartridges very well, and i don't know that anyone can prove or disprove that they are the spare set for Michael caine as props. i think we have to rely largely on trust, they were indeed signed by lady ellen Baker and sold to you by mr poyner. lady Baker was also going on the word of john when she signed. i can say that i have visited john at his home and he holds many genuine articles there for sure. and diana and martin were disgusing dress uniforms, well john has 2 at his home and which i believe to be genuine, the wool fabric is somewhat flattened and lifeless also the brading is just about holding on in places, buttons are missing, so i guess in the passage of time they have seen better days but, they are still collectable.
as for your blanks my friend i think they are worth only what a collector will pay for them. i know what you paid and i think, they will be worth about the same kind of money, maybe a bit more.
regards ralph.

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Ralph
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Mike Snook


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 130
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Dawn

I have seen examples of the Zulu Dawn jackets - they are dreadful. They look dreadful in the film, let alone up close. I would keep my hard earned pennies for something else.

Regards as ever
Mike
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ralph dyer


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 51
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mike snook,
hi, yes I agree that the uniforms in the film zulu dawn are of poor quality. though I believe that when you are outfitting hundreds of extras it is to be expected that the quality will be somewhat lower, depending on the film budget of course, I found the film zulu far better in every way than zulu dawn, but I am pleased that it was produced. In fact I would very much like to see a more full account of the whole campaign, when one looks at the latest so called blockbusters such as... arthur.. alexander.. troy etc, there is such a pattern on heroics and weapons and the over the top acting and film stunts, it makes me shudder, I find picking holes in most films a hobby now.
regards , ralph

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Ralph
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Mike Snook


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 130
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Ralph

I think its pretty standard practice to have smart costumes for close ups and second rate cheaper ones for long shots. In Zulu Dawn, they didn't hesitate to put shoddy costumes right in front of the camera lens - including clearly wooden rifles, some of them with their barrels snapped off, plastic helmets, and reflective (painted cardboard?) shields. I shudder each time I watch it! Oh and lets not forget the black painted helmets which I think are meant to represent the NMP! Oh and then there's the MH carbines! I am shuddering down the spine now!

Regards.

Mike
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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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Lossie,
No claims to being an expert, but my spin on question of the blanks. The correct pistol for the period would have been a .44 Tranter or an Adams, with a Colt running a way distant third (they weren't popular in that they were "single action"-- that is, they had to be cocked manually with each shot instead of "double actions" which can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. Think of a cowboy "fanning" his Peacemaker for the former). Any one of these is worth a small fortune and are unlikely to appear in a movie, so the pistols in the film are Webleys and probably either Mark V's or ( more likely) Mark VI's-- both of Great War (WW I) vintage. The Webley was the final result of the concept that a sidearm should have "stopping power" and they achieved this end by throwing a considerable weight of lead at a shockingly low muzzle velocity. A MK 2 Webley bullet weighs 265 grains and initially travels at only 580 feet per second! For perspective, compare to a "modern" .38 Super Auto slug weighing only 130 grains, but moving at 1300 fps. What's all this mean to you? If a Webley could ever fire a .38 caliber anything, it's a rare pistol and it would be a VERY valuable pistol indeed. More typically they would fire a .455 caliber blank (so called for some strange reason, since they're actually .44 calibers). Incidently,there are many older Webleys in the US, but they've almost universally been adapted to accept .45 ACP bullets, which are far more available . Either way, a movie prop wouldn't be likely to fire a .38 round, but you've got some great provenance and I've only enough knowledge to be dangerous. A true expert could answer your question fer shure.
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Mike
I didn't say I was going to buy it but I was interested in the fact that a prop from the movie should surface in this far flung corner of the world. And that the forum would be intrigued too. I guess these things do appear from time to time all over the world, real or fake.

I don't think it would suit me anyway, its just not my colour Wink

Dawn
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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As a postscript to this thread, the auction closed at $101.00, the reserve being $100.00. The winner of the auction also got copies of the photos taken at the time.

And it wasn't me.

Dawn
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