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Edward


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Glendora, California
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I survived quite well ..thank you Barbara. The only casualties were some of my metal toy soldiers. I lost detatchments of Camel Corps, Hong Kong Constabulary and Natal Native Horse. Seeing them on the floor in pieces made them look like they had run into an angry Zulu impi!

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Re: And More !!! .
The Scorer


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Newport
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Sapper Mason wrote:
Smile ,
Prepared to be staggered Mr John Young ! , add these to the list of those holding the VC / DCM.

1. Sgt Thomas Motteral 20 Sqn RFC
2. Sgt Edward John Mott 1st Btn The Border regt
3. Capt Charles Frederick Booth British South African Police
4. 2nd Lt Alfred Oliver Pollard 1st Btn Honorable Artillery Coy
5 . Sgt Arnold Loosemoore 8th Btn Duke of Wellington`s regt

My , " local " VC holder in Anglesey John ( William Williams) had his VC by ballot and this was in 1917 .

I know there are more VC / DCM holders, when you find one , there will be others , " Sapper " .


My "local" VC holder is Colour Sergeant John Byrne, 68th Regiment of Foot (later the Durham light Infantry). He was awarded his VC in the Crimea for two acts of heroism, and then the DCM during the New Zealand Wars. He might have been the first to have been awarded a bar to the VC, but as his companion (Sgt John Murray) was awarded the VC, he had to accept the DCM instead.

Colour Sergeant Byrne, although not a native of Newport, South Wales, is buried in St Woolos Cemetery, not far from Messrs Lyons, Murphy and Saxty. He was working in the town (ironically in 1879) when he committed suicide following an argument during which he shot and wounded a local youth. He was buried in an unmarked grave, which was only discovered in the 1980's and marked with a stone arranged by the Durham Light Infantry.

It is thought that Sgt Murray features in the first of the Sherlock Holmes books ("The Sign of Four") when he's mentioned as being a fellow soldier of Dr John H Watson.

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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Sheldon

I agree. It is difficult to see why Dr Hale has bothered to compare and contrast a feature film with the results of his historical researches on the Norwegian & Swedish mission fields in Natal & Zululand. He is an academic and a theologian and it is difficult to see how any common ground would be found between his researches and the film.

As you say, the article was published in 1996, just a few years after his PhD on Witt, and also at the same time as his VRS compilation on the correspondence of the Norwegian missionaries (which I find excellent)mentioned in my post. His tirade against the film seems both bizarre and unnecessary and I think the explanation is that - having studied the life and work of Witt in the archives of the various Norwegian & Swedish missionary societies (the two countries being under the same crown at the time) - he simply wanted to correct the portrait of Witt which appeared in the film, as well as "defend" the Scandinavian mission field's activities and personnel, which clearly he thought had been slighted or, at least, misrepresented; if not in character then at least in historical detail. In doing so, he appears to have overlooked that he is dealing with Hollywood (or Baker & Endfield's version of it) and not a historical account. Yes, I also smiled at the footnote "easily the most detailed ..." etc)!

I think it possible that Witt did intend the mission to be known as Oscarberg as well as the crag itself, as this is reflected in his correspondence. However, he had hardly been there five minutes when the AZW broke out and the crossing point had long been known in Natal as Rorke's Drift and continued to be so afterwards. It was also always likely that the nearby buildings - only a few hundred yards away - would retain the same name, as they did and have. There is no reason why his mission should not have been known to the SMS as Oscarberg but retain its British (Irish?!) name in the minds of the colonists - as it did and has. Even St Augustine's, some further distance away on the other side of the river, was known also in this country as "the Rorke's Drift mission" from the 1880s onwards. So it looks a bit of a fussy point on Dr Hale's part.

I haven't seen Dr Hale's PhD on Witt but do refer often to his VRS effort from 1996, which is very useful indeed and gives every appearance of being very well researched, as one would expect from someone with his impressive collection of doctorates. I think the article in the SAMHJ, though, rather pointless.

Sapper - he does explain in detail the meaning of "pietistic" in his VRS publication!

Peter
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The Defeat Of History
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