rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:06 am

,
Hopefully someone much more enlightened than myself can sort this one out ! . Pte Butler who served with " C " Coy( 24th ) and the Mounted Infantry is the subject of this item . A source indicates that his father received a letter from Frederick stating he had survived Isandlwana by hiding in a rocky area , described the battle and made good his escape . He appears on the 1891 census so of course was not a casualty that day . Was he a survivor of the battle , not as far as i am aware ( ? ) , was he one of the men who was with Chelmsford ( ? ) and could this be another case of a soldier telling stories much like Pte Comberton to gain a few beers down the pub ( ? ) . Do we know the roll call of any Mounted Infantry men who may have been with Chelmsford that day ? . A Pte W J BUTLER 1908 1/24th was killed at Isandlwana but not of the Mounted Infantry i believe ( ? ) . Was Frederick Butler a survivor of Isandlwana or was he deployed elsewhere that day ? , could he have been missed from the roll call of survivors or does someone know different ? .

I was lucky enough to be part of the dedications to Pte Partridge & Pte Cooper at Blaina & Worthing , descendants of Pte J Fielding , Pte F Hitch & Pte W Camp , Pte C Mason were amongst the gatherings , family members of Pte Partridge added to the grandness of the day at Blaina , i recall one person saying somewhat tongue in cheek , " I hope next time William gets buried lower down in the cemetery ! " , a reference in good hearted jest at the steep hill to the graveside of William Partridge . At both Worthing and Blaina the weather Gods gave us a sunny day and it is hoped further such events will take place in the years to come , " Sapper "

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:49 am

Good to here from you Sapper..

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:27 pm

P.H.

That response was about as useful as a chocolate teapot! Wink

And in Kent we usually "hear" rather than "here".

JK

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:54 pm

OUCH!!!! And yours was about as useful as an ashtray on a motor bike
Wink

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:52 pm

Harman my old chap,

As a proud posessor of a Royal Endfield 250cc Continental (1964 not the India ones) and a Caterham 7, I do not need to smoke.

Regards

JK

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:59 pm

Then you need this

Advanced Automotive Fault Diagnosis - 2nd Edition
by Tom Denton

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:21 am

Now, now, boys, behave yourselves.

Sapper, I was intrigued to see this name again. I was researching the shipwreck of the Orphues of the NZ west coast in 1863 and on board was a deserter from the Harrier by the name of Frederick Butler. Now, I would imagine that this is a completely different Butler, as the name was quite common then, but interesting to know that Butler deserted again after giving evidence at the coroners court after the shipwreck and was never seen again. One wonder if he made his way to Africa....

Speculation on my part, as he was 34 at the time of the shipwreck which would make him 50 by the time of the AZW war, and, in those days, regarded as an old man.

I have, however, gone down the same path you have, (wondering if there was a relation) looking over the muster rolls and have come up with nothing. There was a thread under "off-topic" where I discussed this and it might be worth you revisiting as some people posted some interesting things about my Fred Butler.

Dawn

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:18 pm

Dear Graham,

When the disaster happened at Isandlwana, what did the soldiers do? Firstly, they tried to find a piece a paper - in short supply - to write home to tell their families that they were safe. These survivors were nowhere near the battle - but they wished to give their folks back home the reassurance that they were OK (no texting, no mobiles, no BBC reporter on the spot in those days). Many of the letters were written from RD in the days after the famous defence. All these letters have become fixtures in family folkfore. He WAS there and he survived the famous battle. Far from the truth.

Frederick Butler was with 2nd Squadron Mounted Infantry under Sugden employed as a saddler until 12/9/1879 according to the pay and muster rolls of the 2/24th.

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:03 pm

Dear Martin , many thanks for your comment re Pte Butler , i get to Kew but once or twice a year and most of the time i am chasing service papers or other data for a number of people , rarely having time to chase up muster rolls or pay records , i did get the service papers on my last visit for Pte Spiller who was mentioned in a previous link . Excuse me being somewhat obtuse but it would appear that Pte Butler ( Mounted Inf ) was not on the survivors list of Isandlwana unless i have mis-read things ( ? ) . I have asked if possible for a copy of the letter written by 1199 Pte Butler to see if indeed it was written in South Africa or in the UK .

Hopefully next time at Kew i may source ( if held ) the papers of Pte Butler and so gain that further portion of knowledge , i rarely if at all have time to check the muster rolls & pay records due to the volume of data which takes up my time there . I did on my last visit get the papers of Pte Spiller who was the subject of an inquiry on this forum elsewhere .

As i have no knowledge of the circumstances of Pte Butler ( M I ) , your input is acknowledged accordingly . As in the case of Pte Comberton mentioned elsewhere in this forum , once investigated the truth becomes known . Pte Combertons story re Rorke's Drift does not hold up of course and if i am fortunate to get a copy of the letter written by Frederick Butler then i can take it from there and will be happy to let you know anything that comes to light .

As you mention Pte Butler was in the 2nd Mounted Infantry under Sugden , these men are not familar to me and so can i ask ( if known ) where and what would they have been doing on the 22nd Jan 1879 ( ? ) . As you say , getting paper and news to get back home was a difficult undertaking but some managed it . Should i read the letter as indicated from Pte Butler i would as indicated be happy to let you know what he had written , thank you once again , " Sapper " .