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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:26 pm

Finally managed to send for this book ! Very Happy

Any opinions ?

Thanks

Coll

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:56 pm

Coll

Most would consider it the standard work on "the Zulu response to the British invasion of 1879" - it's sub-title. It appeared just after, or around the same time as, a number of published articles or contributions by Prof Laband to other works (Kingdom & Colony at War, for example) which he and others produced on the war as seen from the side of the Zulu.

I'm sure you'll enjoy and appreciate it, Coll.

Peter

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:33 pm

Peter

Thanks for replying.

Yes. I am very keen to read it.

Coll

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:25 pm

In Kingdom in Crisis Prof. Laband tended towards the idea that Zulu manoeuvres on the 21st were, or at least could have been, part of a deliberate decoy. To me that theory has always seemed extremely unlikely. But does anyone know whether he revised his views on this point, or indeed even subsequently defended them?

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:59 pm

Paul

I've not yet got my copy of this book, but it's interesting to know that he hasn't shrugged off the notion that creating a decoy was part of the Zulu plan, but that it might have been.

Coll

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Coll

I'm sure that no student of the AZW would doubt for a moment that the Zulu were perfectly capable of all kinds of sophisticated strategems had they so chosen; but in the case of Isandlwana the question has to be not could they, but did they? Was there a deliberate Zulu strategy, a decoy designed to lure the British into splitting their forces on 21-22 January? For me, the answer has to be No. Even the much-maligned Morris came down hard against that theory.

But read the sources and secondary studies and come to your own decision. There's nothing like doing the historical detective work for yourself!

Very Happy

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:36 pm

Paul

Yes. I've formed my own decision about that aspect, but my post was more to do with the fact that John Laband, an expert in his field, 'tended towards the idea' of 'a deliberate decoy', in the book.

I'll know his views better on reading it.

Coll

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:14 pm

Paul

Agreed. The Zulu - whether Matyana or whoever - could not have predicted Dartnell's disobeying of Chelmsford's orders, nor Chelmsford's headstrong decision on receipt of his last message from Dartnell in the middle of the night. No ambitious plan to get the British to split their column in two, just some very skilful manoeuvring and skirmishing on the morning of the 22nd to conceal the position and movements of the main impi from the various probing constituents of Chelmsford's reconnaissance force.

The reluctance to fight on the 22nd itself as a result of the phase of the moon also comes into this argument. As far as Laband is concerned, he acknowledges the traditional reluctance but doesn't think it was strong enough to prevent the seizing of a sudden obvious advantage at Isandlwana (nor indeed to dissuade the coastal impi from attacking en masse at Nyezane earlier on the same day). Clearly, nor was this reluctance sufficient to dampen the impetuosity of some of the Zulu regiments chafing at the bit in the Ngwebini valley.

Peter

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:15 pm

Peter

Exactly - thank you.

And to the iNyezane, one could also add Wood's engagements with Zulu forces on the 22nd (and, I suppose, Rorke's Drift). The 'day of the dead moon' cannot have been that overriding an imperative in Zulu cosmology.

If anything, the Zulu detachments which Dartnell followed must have been acting on their own initiative rather than following some strategy devised by the high command with the main impi at Ngwebeni.

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:22 pm

Peter/Paul

Yes. I felt that what it looked like - primary source mention of decoy (by Milne ?) - was not actually what it was.

Can either of you tell me please, if Laband covers the initial discovery of the Zulu army by Raw ?

Does he say they were sitting down, or already advancing ?

Thanks

Coll

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:20 pm

Coll

Parts of Dr Laband's book are available on Google Books. See http://books.google.co.uk/books for further details.

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:30 pm

Paul

Thanks for the above link, although I've finally received my copy of Laband's book, after quite a delay.

Anyway, I'll be able to know his views better soon.

My next books will have to be more to do with comparative history - including Col. R.G. Shaw, 54th; Col. B. Grierson, 10th Cav.; Lt. C. Gatewood, 6th Cav; Maiwand 1880.

Then back to purchasing AZW titles again.

Coll