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Private Norris
Carrie Norcott


Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Worcestershire
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I am hoping that someone can help me or point me in the right direction.

I am helping my mother in law research her family history. The only details that we have on her great grandfather is a bible that was given to him which is has a dedication wriiten in the inside cover which reads 'Private Norris February 19th 1879 3rd Battalion 60th Rifles" . We know that he fought in the Anglo-Zulu war but have no further details on him - not even a first name or date of birth. Can anyone please suggest ways of tracing him through the archives or does anyone know information of why and where the bible was given. It is signed by what we believe is "Panzera" but it is difficult to read the writing.
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Carrie,

There were two Privates in 3rd/60th (K.R.R.C.) Rifles with the surname of Norris: Private 1034 C. Norris & Private 1033 W.J. Norris.

The best place to check their details would be at The National Archives, Kew.

As to the date it was at that time that the 3rd/60th left the U.K. for the campaign.

JY
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Carrie Norcott


Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Worcestershire
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That it really helpful - thank you.

Do you know if the signatory 'Panzera' would have been a commanding officer or clergy member or something? Also, do you know if all serving members were given a bible?

Sorry - I just realised that I am asking lots of questions!! Sorry if I sound a little rude! It is just that I did not realise that all this information was available. Do you know if the archives would detail the soldiers home / family details?

Thanks for all your help so far

Carrie
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Carrie

If Pte Norris survived his service in the army then his soldier's service documents (the personal military file which his regiment kept during his period of engagement) are very likely to have survived, and will be found in class WO97 at The National Archives at Kew, as John has said. Presumably by looking at the papers of each of these two Pte Norrises you'd be able to tell which of them was your man from known family information?

The papers - if they all survive - will include his attestation, which is the form he signed when he enlisted, and his answers to the usual questions put to recruits. His physical description (height, weight, appearance, marks etc) and his movements around the world should be documented, together with any campaigns, awards or wounds he picked up, as well as, perhaps, details of his profiency at, for example, musketry, and any progress with his army education. His discharge should be recorded and possibly his next-of-kin, as well as his own personal details at the time of enlistment (birthplace, occupation, dates etc).

If you can't get to Kew, the staff there can provide you with a list of researchers who can search for and copy the necessary documents for you. See their website.

As John has said, that date was the embarkation date of the 3rd Battalion of the 60th Rifles, and they sailed from Gravesend, Kent on the Dublin Castle, calling at Madeira before reaching the Cape in the middle of March and disembarking at Natal (probably Durban) on 20th. His Battalion was about 900 strong and they were accompanied on the voyage by five horses. It's a very nice touch to be presented with a Bible to take overseas with him - it was known that he'd be fighting and in danger as he was part of the huge reinforcements going out quickly after news of the Isandlwana disaster. In the next few days and weeks thousands more troops followed him from Southampton & Portsmouth.

"Panzera" is a bit of a puzzle. Is the writing clear? Not "Pretoria", is it? A ship of that name embarked for South Africa on the very same day, but from Southampton, and carrying the 91st Regiment. It is possible, I suppose, that 900 Bibles were dished out, but might it have been a gift from a family member or close friend who awaited a safe return?

Do you know (even approximately) where this soldier, or his family, came from or later lived?

Peter
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Carrie Norcott


Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Worcestershire
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Peter,

Thank you very much for your reply - it was very helpful.

At the moment we are at the very beginning of our search and I thought that the bible gave a good starting point being a fixed point in time during a well known event. Given this information we can now move on and find out more about him and his family.

I will let you know what I find - if anyone here can positively identify either of the Private Norris' I would love to know.

Thank you again you are both extremely knowledgable.
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Good luck, and enjoy your delving. There are plenty of willing helpers here who "know their onions" if you have any more questions later on.

P.
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