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Sawback artillery bayonets in Zulu War?
Carl Daeche


Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Broadstairs
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Hi Guys,

I am reluctantly reducing the size of my collection and only keeping (under strict orders) those items that only pertain to the 1879 conflict. As such my collection of MH bayonets are being sold off (not on ebay I have just discovered).

My question is this. I have an 1879 pattern 17.5mm muzzle ring diameter (Skennerton B197) obviously designed for the garrison carbine? ( am I right Neil) would it have reached the battlefields of Zululand at any point before Uhlundi?

If yes I get to keep it - If no its auction time!

All the best

Carl
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Neil Aspinshaw


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Loughborough
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Carl
Unlikely, including and up until Nov 1878 only 30,000 M-H carbines had been made, the majority the Cavalry carbine. I have been liasing with Mike over rifle issues and dates etc, the carbine is proving elusive in information as production was relatively low in the first few years, Enfield finally got its act together and had made 82,000 total by 1884 (thats March 1884)
The Pattern 1877 sawback has two muzzle ring diameters, and sitting in the comfort of my office I can't remember what they are, the later Garrison carbines in Mk2 & Mk3 are cut down rifles, and date from the C1890 period, these are thicker at the ring due to the barrel width. I'll check one of mine tonight.

You don't have a nice Elcho or decent ordnance Yataghan do you?... that you want to got to, whats that auction house in Loughborough, amazingly at my house.. N.A.BAY?.

You doing any more ammo boxes yet? Wink

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Neil
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Carl Daeche


Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Broadstairs
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Hi Neil,

I thought not. looks like its going then. I have a cutlass bayonet that I bet you don't have yet?

As for ammo boxes. I will do 4 when I retire but until then my days are chocker. Do you want all four!

All the best

Carl

PS whens the shoot up north. I have a snider carbine from Africa and an MH that need clearing of cobwebs...
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Neil Aspinshaw


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Loughborough
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Carl
I get sea sick! thats why I haven't got the Cutlass bayonet!.

Checked my info, I am afraid it's sell on the sawback, IC1 Artillery carbine was proposed, 1877, with an order 195 for 5000 in the 1878 procuction year. In the event Enfield made....... 1!.

By July 1878 5000 had been made, however they were not issued until July 1879 when a further 3000 had been made, interestingly, those 3000 had an extra 5000 bayonets made, probably to make up stocks for general issue of those made up until 7.78.

Before that date, even from the mid 1870's during development the P60 converted yataghan bayonet was going to be the standard model, however, the notes do state that the IC1 carbine was to be a standard model with Yeomonary and Field Artillery carrying swords as regulation side arm, hence it never had a bayonet bar on the top band, it was only during '77 that it was muted for a bayonet fitting at all.


Next guest day is 1st Nov...if you fancy a blast.

Neil

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Neil
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AMB


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 921
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Carl,

You're only making another four ammo boxes?! Then those of us with them are very privileged! How many have you made in total?

Regards as ever,

AMB
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Bayonets and boxes
Carl Daeche


Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Broadstairs
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As always AWB you humble me with your favourable box comments. Yes I am retiring from the MPS and will do four boxes. I have two pre-orders so two begging (Sorry Mr Critchley but I am a pensioner).

I made a total of 10 boxes including two prototypes that came up slightly smaller than the real ones. A couple went across the Pond and the rest in the UK, Oh and I kept one.

So there are 7 out there so far...

Cheers for the comments much appreciated. I got more thanks for the production of 7 ammo boxes then I did for 27 years policing! Funny old world.

Carl
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Carl Daeche


Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Broadstairs
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Sorry AMB. Its the age you see
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Steve Moore


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 47
Location: West Midlands
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Hi, do not miss the opportunity to own one of Carls ammo boxes. Even without the AZW connection they are a stunning future antique and family treasure.
(Sorry Alan if this breaches the rules, but thought it needed saying)

Regards

Steve
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Bill Cainan1


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 107
Location: Lampeter
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I would agree totally with Steve. I am one of "the 7" and regularly use Carl's box to illustrate my talks on the AZW.

A work of art.

Bill

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Bill Cainan
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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 897
Location: Long Island NY USA
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Can I say something? I have my ammo box on 24hr web access camera and all. It is also electrified. You see my brother-in-law covets it as he covets winning the lottery! He would steal it if I don't keep my eyes on it at all times. Thank you Carl sir for your fine work! You surely are one for helping to keep "all in the family". Wink

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Rich
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Sawback artillery bayonets in Zulu War?
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