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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:04 pm |
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This from 'The World's Fighting Shotguns' by Thomas F. Swearengen -
'The Greener Police Shotgun was designed and built from the outset as a pure fighting weapon. It was offered to British Colonial Police Forces as an instrument for dispersing rioting crowds or unlawful assemblies, for guarding vulnerable public facilities, for conducting cordon and search operations, and for arresting dangerous criminals. To fill these missions the gun was purposely made very robust. It could be employed as a battering ram for breaking down doors or barricades, as well as a bludgeon for breaking heads, when required. Because of its sturdy construction it seldom suffered damage in these roles'.
'...single shot, hammerless, lever-action, dropping-block, striker-fired, short-receiver Martini action.'
Any idea if it was used in Africa at the time of the Zulu War 1879.
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Sawubona
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:50 pm |
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"single shot, hammerless, lever-action, dropping-block, striker-fired, short-receiver Martini action"-- sounds like a Martini conversion, Coll. The problem is that "Greener" was a gunsmith/gunsmiths for a long time and to make matters worse, "WW Greener" was the name of both a father and son. The older refused to work with breech-loaders and the younger wasn't likely to have been old enough and in control enough of the company in 1879. So, I'd write off a Greener shotgun based on a Martini action entirely in the AZW. Still, shotguns in general were definitely possible and even probable there and then. I image many officers on station in Africa wouldn't pass up the opportunity to do some hunting with their Purdy doubles and the like. And remember that a common charge in a musket even in the 1700-1800's was "buck and ball", a wicked mix of a solid slug and scatter-gun lead shot . I seem to recall that shotguns were used in the Frontier Wars against the Xhosa in South Africa and I can say for certain that they were used against the Maori in New Zealand (and more often by the Maori themselves). Frankly, you can put a shotgun shell in pretty much anything-- the Martini chambers and fires a fairly standard 28 gauge shot shell, as does a Snider Enfield and WD sanctioned shotshells were manufactured for both. I've got a few vintage Snider shotgun rounds and I know that somewhere out there are War Department issue Martini shotgun rounds. Many Martinis were converted to smoothbore shotguns after they had served out their out time as front line arms and Greener and company did a lot of that sort of work. Many went to Ireland... enough said?
Truth be told however, I'm just posting while we're waiting for Neil to stop by and answer all of our questions. Incidentally, I think you would fall in love with my sawed off Snider-Enfield "street sweeper", Coll. Why or when someone would cut off all but 13 inches of the barrel of a Mk II * Snider conversion of a '53 Enfield is beyond me, but it's an interesting bit of hardware with a decidedly "in-your-face" feel to it. Frankly, I can't imagine anyone hitting what he was aiming at even if the target was standing motionless at twenty yards, but an off hand shot from horseback at a deer (or a man) standing nearby is entirely possible.
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Last edited by Sawubona on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:38 pm |
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Sawubona
Thanks for your detailed reply.
I've got a book on the Snider, but find it difficult to envision a sawn-off 'street-sweeper' version.
Any chance of scanning a photo ?
Timothy
Thanks for the link.
Yes. I had seen the later date, but it surprised me somewhat that the Martini aspect of the gun was still popular, including only the one-shot capability.
However, in my book, there is mention of the earlier version of the gun originating about 1869, with some modifications being made over the following few years, but it gives the impression the concept wasn't fully accepted and production remained at a standstill, only to be resurrected late 19C- early 20C, even though it was of an obsolete pattern.
It caught my attention in the book due to its Martini Henry appearance, albeit with an extremely sturdier looking construction.
It struck me that it wouldn't have looked out-of-place in the Zulu War 1879.
Thanks again
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:52 pm |
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Sawubona
Thanks for the info.
Yes, the varied life of the MH, recycling I think it's called, just by finding another calibre and use for it. I seem to recall the .22 version was issued to cadets.
The link is interesting, though I've just glanced through it at the moment.
LeMats - I finally acquired a great book on them, 'The Confederate LeMat Revolver'. by Doug Adams.
Another book you may be interested in is 'Standard Catalog Of Civil War Firearms'. by John F. Graf. Illustrations aplenty.
As an aside, rather than asking about U.S. 19C firearms on the forum, I managed to get the above books along with a few others last year, including about the U.S. Cavalry and the Trapdoor Springfield. So I'm a very happy man !
However, my weapon of choice is the Bowie knife and the bible for it is 'The Bowie Knife: Unsheathing An American Legend'. by Norm Flayderman.
Coll
P.S. Sent you a pm with my e-mail address.
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