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Frederick Butler, RN
Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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I'm not sure if this is the place to put this, or whether it belongs on Off Topic chit-chat as this has nothing to do with the Zulu War but I thought I'd give it a go anyway, having exhausted other channels.

I've writing a book on NZ's greatest maritime disaster - the shipwreck of the HMS Orpheus in 1863. I'm trying to find out about one of the crewmen on board, a deserter from the Harrier, called Frederick Butler. He was a native of Gosport, Hants.

Naval records in the National Archives only go back as far as 1873.

I'm not good at genealogy and I'm not sure what to do next. If there's anyone out there who can give me a clue, that would be great. I don't expect to get something for nothing, but not knowing where to go to find information puts me in a bind.

I've tried to find naval history discussion forums but there is nothing like rdvc. It makes you realise what a fantastic job Alan is doing.

Dawn
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Dawn

I'm sure there must be some discussion boards and forums catering for Royal Naval history in which your queries will be answered - a quick look shows that uboat.com has a forum which seems to include naval history generally. I'm sure there are others and perhaps other contributors here can advise?

Frederick Butler appears to have been serving as a quartermaster on HMS Harrier on the night of 7th/8th April 1861, when the UK decennial census was taken. His entry shows him to have been married, and aged 34 years and two months at that date. The commander of the Harrier was Sir Malcolm McGregor, Bt. All the crew are enumerated but I have not established exactly where the vessel was at the time as I have extracted the schedule from Ancestry's online version of the census (it was presumably in British waters, however).

I see from a quick google that the Harrier's company suffered some losses in the NZ Wars in 1864.

Peter


Last edited by Peter Ewart on Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Dawn

A further quick look at the online version in 1851 shows a Frederick Butler, son of a William Butler, waterman. Frederick is also described as a waterman, the family residing in Alverstoke, Gosport and FB having been born in Gosport, but the age given is only 16, so it may be someone else - or may be an example of an age given or recorded in the census inaccurately, which was not at all uncommon.

Don't know if any of this helps - it is extracted from the census online via Ancestry's subscription site, via a less than perfect index, so it is not impossible, for example, that he actually appears elsewhere in 1851, is mis-indexed, and that the 16 year old is someone else. Gosport will have been full of watermen, after all.

Presumably it is his naval career you are keen to pin down? Do you know anything of his later life in civvy street or when he died?

Peter
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Thanks for all that, Peter. It certainly pins down his age at the time of the shipwreck on which had conflicting information. He also seems to have been a midshipman as some stage, in his early twenties, I guess, and there is a photo of him in his middy uniform which I think led people to think he was about 21 at the time of the shipwreck. Just goes to show - crosscheck your references.

I'm afraid Fred must have got a bit fed up with the navy as he deserted the Harrier in Sydney. He was later arrested and was being taken back to the Harrier, then in Manukau Harbour, on the Orpheus.

What is significant is that he had taken the bar at that harbour before and so was the only person on the doomed ship who had ever taken that course. However, when he tried to advise the sailing master he was, of course, not believed.

He drops from history after giving evidence in the coroners court and a friendly lady at Auckland Maritime Museum says that he deserted again, never to be found. She's not sure exactly when. But that's heresay and I'm trying to find a reliable reference to this.

Yes, it is his naval history I am interested in.

The Harrier did indeed suffer losses in the Maori wars. What is ironic is that the 2nd lieutenant of the Orpheus, Lt Charles Hill, lost his life a year later in an attack on Gate Pa in Tauranga. He was with the ship HMS Curacoa by then.

And thanks once again, Peter, you certainly turned up more information than I ever did using the web.

Dawn
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Frederick Butler, RN
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