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Ancestry Claims
TonyJones


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Essex
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Dear All,
this message is for anybody that is descended, directly or indirectly, from our brave heroes who fought at the Battles of Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift. There is a project under way, which is being conducted by National Geographic called the 'Human Genome Project' which can be viewed at:

www.nationalgeographic.com/genographic

National Geographic offers a DNA test for the ridiculously low price of �50 (dependant on exchange rate), where as before this test would cost you in the region of �350+. The test provides you with your 'haplogroup type' (The 'tribes' that we all belong to) and a profile of your DNA. You get a kit which contains a 'buccal swab kit x2' maps of our ancestors journey out of Africa, and an excellent DVD which relates the travels and tales of the project's co-ordinator, Dr Spencer Wells.
For males you are given a 'Y Chromosome' analysis, which provides you with the 'genetic markers' that are unique to all 'same name males' within your family i.e. if you share the same name as your ancestor who fought at these battles.For example a great grandson of a defender of Isandlwana or Rorke's Drift, will carry the defender's marker in his DNA make-up, your unique piece of your ancestor. This is equally valid for great nephews and cousin's removed. Although you will not have the defender's marker in you you will both share the defender's father's marker (in the case of great etc nephew) or the defender's grandfather's marker (in the case of cousin's removed).
Claims of ancestry are straight forward for those that can prove their lineage via birth marriage and death certificates,but there will be always a category of 'not quite sure' due to 'other circumstances' which are far more common that what we may imagine.Even the GRO's stance is to 'take with a pinch of salt what you read on birth marriage and death certificates,as people can and will say anything to suit the occassion'.The test is 'fool proof' for even direct descendants who can claim lineage via certificates.Taking part in the test will provide a legacy for future generations of your family who wish to trace their ancestry back to our heroes.I now,for example,have several Jones's on board who are willingly taking part in the test to validate the authenticity of their claim of lineage back to 593 Private William Jones VC.(Thomas James Jones branch and 593's branch via Elizabeth Goddard marriage,we still need a Jones descendant of the Albert Ulundi Jones branch to come forward at this stage).
Once you have taken the test you can download your results to the company that conducts the testing for National Geographic, who then provides you with a numberof options. They will offer your further tests at a reduced price and notify you when a family member over the last 7 generations has taken part in the test. This again, is a fool proof method of identifying fellow family members as interpretation of the results is beyond the control of the person taking part in the tests.You can view what is entailed at the website of the company that does the testing for National Geographic which is:

www.familytreedna.com

This will be the way forward in the future for ancestry claims of all types as the cost of DNA tests is falling as the testing methods become less expensive. National Geographic hopes to test initially 100,000 people and eventually 1,000,000. My own experience with the test is one of intrigue and excitement. Interestingly all Caucasians are descended from the San Bushmen, who lived in Africa who possess 'all' features of every known race on the planet. This knocks such concepts as race and racism on the head as under the skin we are all related. This is exciting and certainly is the way forward for the future.


Tony.
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Paul Bryant-Quinn
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Tony,

I may be missing something obvious here, but leaving aside for a moment the myriad other questions that your post raises, how exactly can the analysis of someone's DNA 'validate the authenticity of their claim of lineage' without access to the specific genetic data of the person from whom they are claiming descent?

And what guarantee is there that the company which analyses your DNA is not going to make that information available to other parties whose interests may not include your own?

Paul
TonyJones


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Essex
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Dear Paul,
this is a very good technical question that you ask. I read that your reference is in the area of obtaining a sample of DNA from the person who an individual is claiming lineage from. The tests are validated by what are known as 'genetic markers' where every male leaves a piece of himself in his sons y chromosome. This process is repeated over a period of time so that after a number of generations a certain number of same-name males will have the same marker in them as from the source of their original ancestor, the man who spawned them all. The analogy is similar to a photo-copying machine where the original can print as many copies as is necessary to duplicate itself. To give an example, 3rd cousins of the same name, remembering that it is 3rd cousins who share the same direct great great grandfather will both have this mans marker present in their DNA sample. This removes the need to get a sample of DNA from the person who is now long dead and gone. This will be further validated by independant 'paper trails' back to the individual where the DNA test has been backed up by official records.
The guarantee that your genetic information will not be disclosed to a third party is a legally binding contract that you enter into with the agents of this test which is National Geographic, and Family Tree DNA, which at this current time is the world-leader in this field. If you look at the websites you will see areas which explain this, 'frequently asked questions' on the National Geographic site and on the homepage (if i remember correctly) of the Family Tree DNA site. What other questions do you think that these tests raise as you seem to intimate this in your opening statement. Cheers.

Tony.
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Tony

There is a fair sized report in The Times this morning about an American lad who has traced his biological father (a sperm donor) supposedly via a DNA swab and some genealogical websites! I haven't got it in front of me but it may appear in other newspapers today. I didn't really follow it (too early in the morning & I only skimmed) but I think the website was more a standard genealogical contact site (which can be very useful) than one providing any genealogical data. I think it also touched upon the fee system which you mentioned.

The suggestion was that this method might not only blow a hole in the legal anonymity offered to donors but may well be the way in future for aspirants to trace their biological (donor) fathers. I'd have my doubts there as the odds of chance contact would still be very wobbly, although I can't say I had time to read it thoroughly.

Peter
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TonyJones


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Essex
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Dear Peter,
thanks for that info.A report of this incident also appears in today's Sun under the heading 'Lad Nets Dad'.The chap did not know who the identity of his genetic father was,and the lad's mother did not know the name of the father as the birth was conceived by the anonymous donor method.The company that the chap in the states used to conduct his dna test was www.familytreedna.com the same company,in conjuction with National Geographic,that the Jones descendants are currently using to chart the Jones Y genenome.
Whilst the chap in the States and his peviously unknown same-name brothers had a choice whether to download their results for contact with other family members,it does raise a grey area as to just who remains anonymous from being detected as a natural parent,with such easy access to birth indexes here and across the pond.Whilst this discovery will be a 'good thing' for the son,the genetic father,who supposed that he would remain undetected,will see it as a possible intrusion into his 'legal anonymity' which he possibly signed up to when he donated his 'sample'.
This reveals a current loophole in both systems and is an issue that will we will now probably see a great deal of.A father will pass his Y chromosome virtually unchanged into his son,if the son and a brother take the dna test the 'marker' that the father has left in all his sons will be exactly the same.In the absence of an ancestor,through the passage of time and the unavailability of a dna sample from the originator,markers in descendants can be compared and lo and behold a series of markers will emerge which are the same.
The report states that a lot of students donated samples in the past for 'beer money' which on a humerous note,once again highlites the dangers of drinking and casual you know what.In the meantime,thanks for alerting me to this report.All the best.

Tony.
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Ancestry Claims
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