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Archives of Zululand
PRS


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Bulgaria
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I am looking to purchase a copy of this set, but seem unable to find any for sale. Internet search of the usual bookshops has produced nothing.

Does anyone know of a full set of 6 vols for sale anywhere ?

Thanks
regards
PRS

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Michael Boyle


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 595
Location: Bucks County,PA,US
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PRS

Amazon US has a listing from a Maryland book shop of one copy, $1,550.25 USD.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/190300800X/ref=dp_olp_2?i.e.=UTF8&qid=1207208569&sr=1-1

Best of Luck

Michael
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Archives of Zululand
Robert John


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 205
Location: The Netherlands
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PRS,

I,m sure if you contact the AngloZulu War research Society ---www.azwrs.com or Dr Adrian Greaves on info @ anglozuluwar.com they will be able to help you.

Regards,

Robert

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David Glynne Fox


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 59
Location: Nottingham
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PRS
I hope this helps. Stephen Hopkins (see links on this site) had a set available recently. A set of six volumes though does not come cheap at �1,250.00. I purchased my set as a subscriber when it first came out. It is an excellent piece of work though and worthy of a place on the shelf of any AZW enthusiast. Good luck.
David

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Rich
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David:

Do you ever think the "Archives" would be re-published less expensively? Perhaps they could use less expensive paper etc. In dollars right now it'll be a bit over $2,500... a nice piece of change........Wink...
Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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I had thought these vols were still available from the publisher but perhaps I'm out of date. The publishers were certainly still issuing individual vols at �170 each as recently as four years ago, although whether these were only to original subscribers I'm not sure.

I only have three vols as I didn't commit myself to the scheme when it was launched but I still hadn't written off the idea of acquiring the remaining three. Can anyone confirm that Archival Publications International no longer distribute these vols? I was lucky to buy mine from an individual (via eBay) at �150 for the three, so snapped up a bargain there.

Stephen Hopkins' prices are usually at the upper end of the market so it might be possible to pick up a set for less than �1250. Assuming the price which Michael has highlighted via Amazon refers to the whole set, it would come out at around �800 or so at current rates, wouldn't it? Much cheaper, but still a great deal of money - you could buy a lot of good books for that ...

Peter
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David Glynne Fox


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Peter,
As I understood it at the time of publication, the Archives were a limited edition, I believe either 100 or 150 copies. If this was indeed the case, then I would think individual volumes would be hard to come by. Mine came issued within a slipcase and I presumed the other sets did the same. Initially, four volumes were intended, but this was subsequently extended to six. I have no idea if any of the four volume sets were ever distributed. Because they were intended to be limited editions, this would no doubt reflect the high price. A number of people have commented on Stephen Hopkins prices, but he does a lot of hard work to obtain these scarce titles which would be difficult to obtain elsewhere. I have purchased many such volumes from Stephen which I have found almost impossible to obtain elsewhere. I suppose one has to ask oneself if the price is worth it as an individual. I am not a great fan of limited editions as the resulting, usually higher price can place them out of the reach of many enthusiasts, which is a great pity. My wife is always worrying that I spend too much on Zulu related objects, I think I have spent more than it cost to fight the Anglo Zulu War in the first place!! Hope this is useful.
David

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David Glynne Fox


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Location: Nottingham
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Rich,
I am not sure if the Archives will be republished. Ian Knight was one of the editors so he may know. The problem with limited editions, apart from their price, is that a reprint can negate the value of the original sets. As I said to Peter, I wish the publishers would print enough for us all at a reasonable cost instead of pricing them out the market except to all but the well-heeled.
Regards
David

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The subject of high prices arose in a previous topic also.

There is no question that books like these hold a wealth of knowledge, that I guess the price has to equal the research and work that went into it.

However, they are priced well out of the reach of many.

I'm studying as best I can, which I hope has shown in my postings as the years go by. But I want to know a great deal more.

That said, I have to resort to studying only what I can afford.

Which ain't much ! Sad

Coll

P.S. Publishers, please put a ceiling on book costs that we can reach !
Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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David

Thanks for the reminder that it is a limited edition. I can see your point about its scarcity - 100 or 150 is not many. I believe the three I obtained were from a subscriber who didn't continue, if that's possible. I can't lay my hands on it but he did write or email at the time (a year or so ago) to say that he thought the publishers still had some. However, if not, part-sets are unlikely to come up, as you say.

My point about Stephen Hopkins' position in the market was not at all to suggest his prices were too high. He does, as you say, get hold of some very scarce material and I have added to my own library via his catalogue or stall. I wonder if the burgeoning reprint trend will have an effect on that market, as many will be happy with the complete text or a working copy in any form for some titles, rather than, say, a good quality first edition, which is some readers' priority and always nice to have, but not always first choice for some if a much cheaper alternative becomes available.

I didn't get the slip case with my three, perhaps not surprisingly. Regarding the acquisition of more and more books, I'm extremly fortunate to be married to an equally keen bibliophile. However, room has become the vital criterion (not every room in the house can be converted to a library!) so I've been instructed that a policy of "one in, one out" must apply, which is a difficult policy to embrace. I can see me becoming a skilful smuggler!

Peter
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David Glynne Fox


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Peter,
I wholeheartedly agree with you that the current trend of reprinting old classics places many works within the reach of interested individuals and I am all for it. The D.P & G reprints are a case in point. I have purchased a number of them and intend to acquire others. I paid nearly �300 for an original Running The Gauntlet by Mossop a couple of years back and can now get the same text for about �25 from the aforementioned company. Although I have some 3000 books in my library, mostly natural history, but including well over 300 on Zulu topics, I am in no way a true book collector. I only purchase books on the subject matter that interests me and try to purchase everything I can on Zulu matters. I await with bated breath the arrival of my copy of the new Harford volume by David and Emma Payne. Like the late and sadly missed David Rattray, I too have a great interest in entomology, as did Harford himself and hope this new volume casts some new light on his insect collecting.
Nice to hear your wife supports your book buying. My wife actually supports my spending on Zulu bits and pieces, so I am very lucky also. She even bartered down the price of my Mk 1 immaculate Martini Henry to �1,500! This of course was before the Nepalese cache hit the market.
Regards, David

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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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David

Yes, Mossop is a classic example. Tomasson another? When I take delivery of a reprint I often think to myself "I would never have got hold of this title if it hadn't been reprinted" but when I do acquire a 1st or early edition, rare or otherwise, I find myself examining every inch of it physically and contemplate the previous owners before even a glance at the text, so both provide pleasures in different ways. A reprint obviously can never provide the same sort of excitement, even though its acquisition can be very welcome if it's a work which has been on your wants list for a long time.

Importing S African books from S Africa is particularly pleasing, especially if they have been in Natal or wherever for a century or more. Even if not, their provenance can be interesting. For example, I recently picked up The Natives of South Africa: Their Economic & Social Condition, a pp360 compilation produced by the S African Native Races Committee, an independent group formed in 1899 who published this report in 1901. I'm delighted that it was once in the library of Alfred Lyttelton, one time Colonial Secretary and someone closely involved in S African history and politics a century ago, as well as being a great amateur all round sportsman, being - if memory serves - the first to play for England at both football and cricket. In fact I think he died as a result of a cricketing injury sustained in S Africa. Not a reason to buy the book but a marvellous bonus when I did.

I'm not sure you're not a "true book collector" - depends what the term means! I also only buy material in which I'm interested but still seem to have "collected" a few thousand over the years! I haven't counted but suspect my Zululand/S Africa shelves are roughly the size of yours, although a largish portion of this must relate purely to the AZW. I particularly chase civilian material (including missionary works) relating to Zululand/Natal/"Basutoland", as a good deal of fascinating writing is to be found here. (My S African material, even with 2ABW works included, is rather puny compared with my local history, cricketing history, Great War, WW2 and other British history, but is probably the fastest growing component of the library these days).

Works which cross the boundaries between favourite topics are particularly popular with me. I can therefore understand your looking forward to the new Harford book. Do you have the big game work by Drummond of Ulundi fame (or should I say fate)?

Peter
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David Glynne Fox


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for your reply. I didn't know Drummond wrote a book on big game. I have been trying to do some research on him and have contacted the Drummonds of Megginch Castle in Perthshire, who are family descendents, I knew of them previously through my falconry activities (I currently own two Golden Eagles). As you quite rightly say, it is great when one can cross boundaries between favourite topics,although Drummond himself never flew hawks as far as I can ascertain, but one of his descendents who married a well known falconer certainly does.

Tomasson work I also bought as a reprint. He lies buried just a few miles from where I live and I regularly pass his grave at Redhill.

I also have a book on the Sherwood Foresters, my fathers' old regiment. This has a printed signature of Smith Dorrien as a frontispiece, but is also actually signed in ink by Smith-Dorrien personally. I just had to have this when I saw it at a local book fair. Again, it had a double reason for buying it. Many of my books are author signed and indeed, the majority of my AZW book are signed. I gave Ian Knight writers cramp last year by taking three bags full of his works to sign at Firepower and again a couple of weeks back, John Laband kindly signed my collection of his works. Talking of signatures, I also have an original signature of King Cetshwayo (spelt Cetywayo on the original) which he signed for a passing dignitary during his captivity at Cape Town. This is one of my most prized possessions.

I haven't yet imported any works from South Africa, although I have a number that were published there and like you, I often wonder about their provenance.
Regards
David

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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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David

Drummond's famous work is The Large Game and Natural History of South & South-East Africa (Edmonston & Douglas, Edinburgh, 1875), containing accounts of his travels, adventures and hunting in Zululand, the Transvaal, Natal & Swaziland during the 1860s and 1870s. It is based on his hunting journals I believe. I haven't got a copy but have often toyed with the idea. Good copies can go for up to several hundred pounds but there are cheaper ones about and I believe it has also been reprinted, so you won't necessarily have to go in at the top of the market. It certainly seems to span the boundaries of your interests, and if you're doing some research on him anyway - well, you'll have to get it!

There is a biographical summary of Drummond (including brief details of his Swaziland travels) in Huw M. Jones: A Biographical Register of Swaziland to 1902 (Univ Natal Press, Pietermaritzburg, 1993) and his name and wanderings do crop up in odd accounts here and there published by civilians in that part of the world at the time. For example, at least once, I seem to remember, in the late Mrs Edward Wilkinson's A Lady's Life & Travels in Zululand & the Transvaal during Cetewayo's Reign (1882) edited posthumously from her "African letters and journals" by her husband, Bishop of Zululand between 1870 and 1875.

As you've probably noticed, most officers who took part in the firing and looting of the King's headquarters on 4th July 1879 and left an account, mention the disappearance and death of Drummond, although several of these accounts differ on the actual (or assumed) circumstances of his end.

Regarding Smith-Dorrien, my copy of his memoirs was a gift from his late biographer, who lived locally until his death a couple of years ago and whose work on S-D I already had. I wouldn't have thought of dragging all those works along for signing - it must have been a heavy load! I think I have most of Prof Laband's works on Zululand or the AZW but have never met him. I think I also have most of Ian Knight's too, including non-AZW, with the exception of the various Ospreys and one or two others.

Peter
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David Glynne Fox


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Hi Peter,

You certainly are a mine of information, thank you for the references re Drummond.

I have met Prof. Laband on a couple of occasions, he is a very nice person and very helpful. He gave a lecture at the National Army Museum a couple of years ago and he and I had a discussion about Chelmsford's alleged luring out of camp by the Zulu. I do not subscribe to this for a variety of reasons but John supports the notion. We ended up begging to differ on the subject.

I do not yet have a copy of Smith-Dorrien's memoirs, in fact I have never seen a copy for sale, but I did recently pick up an old copy of a book about him written by Brig. Gen. C. Ballard.

Thank you again for the information, as you say, I will now have to search out Drummond's book.
Regards
David

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