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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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I forgot to add: the cuts made to THE ALAMO were also carried out by Wayne. Thus both the longer and shorter versions are the "director's cut".
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leightarrant


Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 131
Location: East Sussex
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Sheldon - As far as we know ZULU has never had any cuts for theatrical purposes has it? As mentioned a few years ago by myself on this forum, I always seem to think there was a longer version of the film that I saw in 1972.(ish) I distinctly remember a scene where Private Cole is standing guard outside the little box where Mr Witt is drunk...the first bit is where he is looking worried, and not answering Mr Witt, then, another scene where we cut back to him, only this time he is told to go back to the ramparts where he belongs by Color Sgt Bourne...I also remember another ZULU attack towards the end of the film which isn't in the DVD version, but as it is recorded, a running time of 138 minutes means that these two scenes 'never were' Guess its just my mind playing kind tricks....

One other thing - at last I've found my old LP version of ZULU soundtrack on the Ember label. Can you clarify if this is in stereo, or pseudo stereo as I haven't a record deck any more to give it a try....I believe elsewhere there is an article all about this, and its subsequent released on cd format over the years.

Finally, Hyperthetically, if there were further footage shot for ZULU that never made it to the final print, would we want a directors cut, or would we be happy with the final 138 minutes worth that we all know and love. For the record and it may make the film worse, I would like to see an expanded edition......the bit where Durnsford horses arrive....and other smaller scenes that I can't remember right now. Something about the Bromhead 'hunt' ??
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leightarrant


Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 131
Location: East Sussex
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Where's CY gone when you need him!!!???
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Mel


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 345
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Leigh
On the centre label of my Ember record it states enhanced mono.

For a stereo version of the main theme I would recommend "The Classic John Barry" by the City of Prague Philharmonic conducted and arranged by Nic Raine.

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Mel


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 345
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Leigh
The Private Cole scene you mention is in the latest DVD. Have you got a version where it has been deleted?

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leightarrant


Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 131
Location: East Sussex
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Mel - Maybe my album is also the same, although I always thought it was in stereo.

The Private Cole scene I'm referring too, does have the desired scene in when he is told by color sgt bourne to go back to the ramparts etc, but I always remember an earlier scene of this, when he is first put on guard duty minding over the drunken Mr Witt. The scene depicts him looking nervous, but no dialogue.[quote] The camera pans away to him to reveal soldiers getting ready for the first onslaught.[/quote]
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Coll
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Leigh

I may have misunderstood you, but the scene where Cole is looking nervous, but with no dialogue involved, is it when he first catches sight of the Zulus appearing on the surrounding hills ?

I think there were cuts made to Zulu before its release in the cinemas.

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leightarrant


Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 131
Location: East Sussex
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Coll - I recall this scene about 10 mins before the 1st ZULU hillside shot...
Probably I'm clutching at straws, and as a child the mind is not fully developed!
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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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Leigh,
I think your mind is playing tricks: all elements of the Witt/Cole scene you refer to are in the film! There WAS an extra bit of dialogue originally shot between Cole and Bourne (see my book for the deleted lines), but as far as I'm aware this has never been in any released version. Nor has there been an extra Zulu attack (this may be your schoolboy memory exaggerating the amount of action!).

Re. the notion of a Director's Cut, I've said this before but I'll say it again: the 138-minute version we all know and love IS the Director's Cut. The pre-release cuts were Endfield's (and Baker's and editor John Jympson's) decision; Cy's widow, Lady Baker and the assistant editor have all said there was no pressure from the studio to remove the deleted scenes against their wishes, and the film came in at almost exactly the running time Endfield said it would in correspondence during shooting. The extra scenes were cut because they didn't "play" and would have made the film overlong and too slow. Second-unit director Bob Porter, who shot some Zulu footage that ended up on the cutting room floor, was the first to admit that it had to go. More can be less, and longer is not necessarily better!

As for the soundtrack album, Ember released both stereo and mono editions (I believe some mono record players at the time were not stereo-compatible, hence the need for "dual inventory"). The sleeve and/or label should state whether your version is one or the other. But I have to disagree with Mel about the Nic Raines recording: the arrangement of this version (esp. the rendering of "Men of Harlech") is dreadful! There are various original Barry recordings on different CD editions which are far preferable.
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leightarrant


Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 131
Location: East Sussex
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Sheldon - Point taken about the movie and extra footage that never was. (Shame) I take note of the directors cut of 138 mins, which isn't really known as a directors cut as such. My mind is at rest after these 36 years.

I'll double check my sleeve and inner Ember label tonight to see exactly which LP I have, which depicts a huge scene from the film on the front cover, to which I don't recall seeing in the actual movie. (Wide shot of the final ZULU attack) Marvellous cover it is too!

I'm not so sure I agree about the Nic Raine soundtrack recording of the film. It certainly has a ZULU feel to it, wide and dynamic, Men of Harlech I don't like (Agree with you) nor did I like it on the original Barry recording...but generally I thought the newly recorded ZULU music was refreshing and had a couple more 'pieces' that hadn't been heard before.

Also of note, I have an even latter recording of the ZULU main theme on a compilation cd called 'Classic FM at the Movies' . This edition released last year has yet another version of the main theme to ZULU (By Nic Raine)...only this time its totally different to all other releases. Not sure I like it, its a slower paced piece and overplays the melody, bit like an actor 'over acting' All I have to do now is transfer the LP soundtrack to my mp3 player.....which takes a bit of doin !

Speaking of newly recorded soundtrack recordings (Usually by Nic Raine) May I just recommend two films that have been highly polished and true to their original soundtrack recordings : That being Dimitri Tiomkins 'GUNS OF NAVARONE' and Jeromme Moros' 'BIG COUNTRY' definitely worth a listen.
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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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The problem with the notion of a "Director's Cut" is that essentially it is now a marketing category, which allows the same film (with knobs on) to be sold back to the consumer who has bought it already with the implication that he's getting something new and better. 'Tis not always so, and the existence of the DC label tends to imply that anything not so designated is, by default, not authorised by the director - which is often far from the case. All films leave deleted material behind as part of the process of fine-tuning during editing, and it wouldn't necessarily improve the film to put it back in! Imagine every book being cluttered up by bits of first drafts, rough notes, uncorrected proofs, etc, and you will see what I mean...

The image on the Ember album, which I have, is a production still of the final assault, taken from an angle not used in the film (another common occurrence, and nothing to worry about!). I also have Nic Raine's recording of THE BIG COUNTRY which, I agree, is pretty good - albeit a bit too fast in the Main Title theme. I suppose the advantage of his "ZULU" recording is that it includes a few bits and pieces not recorded for the Barry original (they're in the film but not on the Ember record), though they're fairly minor.
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leightarrant


Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 131
Location: East Sussex
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I kinda like the idea that when purchasing DVD movies, you can choose to watch the extra footage if so desired....such as the recent release of Brando's Mutiny on the Bounty. This gives the viewer a chance to see an alternative cut/take etc etc...which is a nicer way of promoting an old movie and therefore giving the viewer a choice of buying the film on the understanding that it is an added extra, (usually found elsewhere on the DVD menu) and not a directors cut. I myself will purchase an old movie just on the fact that its played in its correct aspect ratio (So often missing from TV station airplays and earlier VHS pan & Scan recordings) and also the fact it may have been remastered offering a better picture clarity, with some added extras in the 'menu', if so desired.
I'm still trying to rack my brains to see if I can think of a recent release in the cinema or otherwise that has bettered an original film by actually being the 'Directors Cut'. Struggle it is for sure. Perhaps Blade Runner....
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Mel


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 345
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Leigh, Sheldon
Are we talking about the same CD here?
The CD I have mentioned does not have Men of Harlech on it. It is an extended version of the main theme and seems to faithfully follow JB's original arrangement.
Which CD contains Men of Harlech?

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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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Mel, I can't remember the exact title or label - I've got about half a dozen different recordings!

Leigh, despite my remarks earlier about the Peckinpah restorations, I do think the re-edits of MAJOR DUNDEE and PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID are an improvement on those previously available, though obviously not ideal. BLADE RUNNER is not among my favourites, but either of the first (!) Director's Cut or the (alleged) Final Cut are preferable to the original studio-mauled release.

One film I would like to see made available in some reconstructed form is A MATTER OF TIME (1976), the last film directed by the great Vincente Minnelli, starring his daughter Liza and Ingrid Bergman. He disowned the theatrical version re-edited against his wishes by AIP, which flopped, and the film has subsequently completely disappeared (at least, I've never seen it). If the discarded footage exists somewhere and it could be reassembled into something approaching its intended form, it would be a great service to film buffs. So mea culpa...
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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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Mel,
I've just checked Amazon for the soundtrack CD and I THINK the one I'm thinking about is the Silva Screen edition recorded by the Prague symphony orchestra (with the cover image of the Zulu raising his shield at Isandlwana). No mention of Nic Raine on it, so perhaps I've been criticising him unjustly...
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Sheldon - Why Always Zulu But Not Zulu Dawn ?
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