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John Young
| Joined: 30 Aug 2005 |
| Posts: 1020 |
| Location: Lower Sheering, Essex |
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:52 pm |
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Graham,
William Ewart Gladstone in his Midlothian speech of December 1879: "In Africa we had the record of 10,000 Zulus slain for no other offence than their attempt to defend their hearths and homes, their wives and their children." Odd you should mention it as I heard part of it in the 1992 version The Last of the Mohicans, only the other day.
Tommy Atkins, depending on which source you take has been around since either 1743 or 1815, so it is certainly not of Great War origin.
Rudyard Kipling in his 1892 collection of poems entitled Barrackroom Ballads used it famously in his poem Tommy.
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
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John Y.
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Michael Boyle
| Joined: 12 Dec 2005 |
| Posts: 595 |
| Location: Bucks County,PA,US |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:01 am |
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Sapper
I tried to find a link to the second Midlothian Speech that contains the text but was unable to find one that you would be able to access so I'll just add this -Gladstone's second Midlothian speech also included (on Afghanistan) "Those hill tribes had committed no real offence against us. We, in pursuit of our political objects, chose to establish military positions in their country. If they resisted, would you not have done the same? And when, going forth from their villages they had resisted, what you find is this, those who went forth were slain, and that the villages were burned ... The meaning of the burning of the villages is, the women and children were driven forth to perish in the snows of winter."
[Of course Gladstone also made a speech in 1862 (on the ACW) saying "...We may anticipate with certainty the success of the Southern States so far as regards their separation from the North."]
Trying to trace the origins of "Tommy Atkins" is an interesting hobby. John's reference to 1743 seems right though. During the Jamaican mutiny a letter sent home included "except for those from N. America...ye Marines and Tommy Atkins behaved splendidly." Which does of course imply an even earlier date of reference!
Here's some links -
http://www.kipling.org.uk/rg_atkins1.htm - which includes a photo copy of an 1815 "Soldier's Book" (Records of Service) example.
http://www.contemplator.com/England/atkins.html - which includes a side bar with information relating the Duke of Wellington connection next to the words and a midi sound file for an old song.
The May 30th, 1885 issue of "Manchester Notes and Queries" contains a letter to the editor from "An Old Orderly-Room clerk" that states he remembers seeing an example from an old 1794 specimen page of Records of Service Book which contains the same example shown above. Military dictionaries from the mid to late 19th Century state that the term originally applied to the service book itself, the 1876 edition only references the name as applied by soldiers to their books and doesn't mention it applying to soldiers themselves.
[For anyone with access to the Oct. 1875 issue of "Belgravia" there is an interesting piece on a contemporary appreciation of the British soldier entitled "Tommy Atkins" which is quite illuminating and shows that not everyone was as harshly disposed as indicated below.]
I came across the following interesting editorial piece in the May-Oct 1881 issue of "The Army and Navy Magazine" that almost seems a template for the later Kipling poem -
"In spite of the recruiting advertisements for "young men of good character," it is evident from the occasional glimpse one gets of the treatment of soldiers, that the Queen's uniform has not yet attained a high position in popular regard. It is one of the curiosities of English sentiment that while for no other nation has the soldier done so much towards winning the present position which his country holds, the English alone consider the wearer of the Queen's uniform as a sort of social pariah. "The army" has always been one of the idols of the people, and after each successive victory the deeds of our "gallant fellows" have been lauded as a matter of course, yet, in spite of this collective admiration, the individual soldier is contemptuously looked down upon. Caterers for public amusements, railway companies, and hotel-keepers are the nominal offenders, but, after all, they are only the mouthpieces of the general public, with whom the blame really rests, and the evil consequences ultimately fall on the right shoulders, for it is a certain fact that as long as military attire brings social disabilities instead of honour, the best and fittest wearers of it will not come to the front. When the soldier is prima facie considered a disciplined, respectful, and respectable man, till he proves himself the contrary individuals of his cloth will really take a pride in upholding the honour of the coat they wear, and be ashamed to disgrace it, but as long as he is regarded as necessarily a low person, whose presence brings pollution to his better-class civilian fellow-countrymen, no improvement can take place in his morals or self-respect. The further the present march of culture and refinement progresses, the further he will be left behind, and the greater will be the evils consequent on his unnecessary and gratuitous degradation."
These accounts (and there are many) do, on the face of it, seem quite in contrast to the period engravings of the cheering and flag-waving when the troops embarked and dis-embarked but it would seem that once the bands stopped playing and the troops broke ranks that Tommy Atkins' lot did leave much to be desired. I'm tending to think that attitudes didn't change until the massive call-up of Volunteers and militia for active service in the 2nd A-BW resulting in the respect that other country's had always offered their soldiers. Could the old attitude have anything to do with Cromwell's heyday or simply that Britain had yet to widely conscript resulting in the military experience not being more universally understood?
[Or, conversely, perhaps Tommy Atkins earned his reputation the old fashioned way - through diligent application!]
Best
Michael
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