rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic - 1 Book - 2 Versions

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:55 pm

Does anyone know of a book (any subject) which has a version in English, and another version in Zulu ?

I used to have an English/Zulu dictionary, but I'd like to see how each sentence in English, which hopefully includes much dialogue, would be written in Zulu.

However, I really don't think there are any, unless someone else knows ?

Thankyou

Coll

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:52 pm

Dear Coll,

I have a bible in Zulu........not probably what you were thinking of.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:26 pm

Hi Coll,

I have not personally seen this pamphlet, but it was reportedly printed in English, IsiZulu, and Afrikaans. Perhaps another forum member has seen, or maybe has, a copy of it:

"Natal Provincial Administration and Library Services. The Last Journey. King Cetshwayo: Reconstruction of His Last Journey and Funeral Wagon / Inkosi uCetshwayo: isiboniso sohamba lwakhe lokugcina kanye nesenqola eyasetshenziswa ekufihlweni kwakhe / Koning Cetshwayo: rekonstruksie van sy laaste reis en begrafniswa. [Pietermaritzburg]: n.p., [1983]. 26 pp. This multilingual publication was issued to mark the presentation of King Cetshwayo�s funeral wagon to the reigning Zulu king in 1983."

Good luck,
Harold

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:52 pm

Martin/Harold

Thanks for your replies.

If I can't get a book which has been written in both languages, I'll possibly have to obtain a book(s), perhaps novels, solely in Zulu, but purchase another English/Zulu dictionary to assist.

I'm sure words and phrases can then be picked up on over time, as I would like to be able to write some Zulu, even if I can't actually pronounce the words.

Martin

Did you obtain the bible abroad or in the U.K. ?

Thanks again

Coll

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:13 pm

Hi Coll

The Bible (Ibhayibheli Elingcwele) is, as you might expect, widely available in isiZulu, though I have not come across an interpaginal English / isiZulu edition - which is not to say that one does not exist, of course. I got mine in South Africa, but you can get one through any number of outlets, both online and retail (I checked two for you: http://www.kalahari.net/ and http://www.nofrontiers.org/).

I don't know how much isiZulu you already know, but as someone with a bit of previous when it comes to languages, I have to say that text comparison is an incredibly difficult and frustrating way of beginning to learn a language (though it can can in fact be of some use once you have the basics under your belt). Why not start with a beginners' course (the proverbial 'teach yourself'!) before moving on to more lengthy texts?

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:59 pm

Paul

Thanks for the info.

I did pick up a few words in Zulu a few years ago, that is, seeing them written and knowing what they meant. I could never speak the language, with its clicks, etc., though.

If I can get actual book(s), perhaps not teaching the language, but novels, etc., which may have a great deal of dialogue, that I can (very) slowly translate into English, even if initially not grasping the concept, I might get somewhere with it.

I'll never be fluent with Zulu, either writing or speaking, but I'd like to give it a go, even as an addition to my Zulu War interest.

After Martin mentioning the bible, I looked the net, and apparently it was the very first book ever wrote in Zulu, around 1883.

Thanks again

Coll

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:10 pm

If I'm inferring correctly your interest, Coll, I would recommend renting or buying the movie "Yesterday". It's a terrific movie (IMHO), it's filmed on location in Zululand and the dialogue is entirely in Zulu with English subtitles (if you want them). You can't get more Zulu dialogue with interlinear translation than that. It's not a particularly manly movie (you'll have to rent "Tsotsi" for violence) , but it did just miss an Oscar for Best Foreign Film. "Tsotsi", which is in a Zulu/Xhosa/English pidgen apparently common in JoBerg, did subsequently win the Oscar.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:27 am

Coll

As Paul has mentioned, the obvious example is the Bible - incidentally the earliest Zulu version being well before 1883, as well as hymns, psalms, prayer books etc., before that date.

One of the most well known early works to appear in both languages was by Magema Magwaza Fuze: Abantu Abamnyama, usually described as "the first major work ever written in Zulu by a native speaker of the language." (A.T. Cope). Translated, the title is The Black People & Whence They Came. Fuze was one of Colenso's people at Bishopstowe and his work was first published in his native language in 1922, having been mostly written by the turn of the century. I might be wrong, but I don't think it was translated before Harry Lugg's effort in 1972. As Fuze's attempt at a history of the Zulu people and including his knowledge of very many of the neighbouring and assimilated tribes and clans, it is cited in most works of Zulu history nowadays, and comparisons of its contents with Bryant, Gibson or Stuart are fascinating.

Usukabekhuluma and the Bambatha Rebellion was first published in Zulu in 1933 but apparently only translated in 1997 (by Dr ACT Mayekiso). It's a fascinating and moving little account of the notorious Chakijana's role, by himself.

But if you want to compare Zulu text with English text alongside (bearing in mind Paul's relevant caveat), the only material which comes to mind offhand is the Rev Henry Callaway's classic work, The Religious System of the AmaZulu(1870). The whole book is set out with Zulu on the left and Engish on the right of every single page - all 448 of them! Should be very useful for your purpose but it is fairly scarce and not cheap. There was a copy on eBay last week but my copy is one of the 1970 Struik reprints in the Africana Collectanea series.

These days I imagine there are many works published in both languages?

Peter

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:35 am

Coll,

you can get a few basics from this site>-

http://www.linguanaut.com/english_zulu.htm

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:11 pm

Alan

Thanks for the link.

I've found this site which looks useful -

http://isizulu.net/

It appears you can ask for translations on their forum.

Coll

PS. Do you think there may be a chance of adding a Zulu-English, English-Zulu language section on the site, perhaps of those words that are listed in some of the AZW books, or are used on a regular basis within them ?

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:33 am

To be honest Coll, I think it would be better just to add that site to the links section. I can't see the subject warranting a section. Opinions are welcome from other members.

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:40 am

Alan, Coll et al,

Coll makes an interesting suggestion. Maybe a logical conclusion to this would be a mirror RDVC site in Zulu? Maybe not (admin would be huge), but if we could get a Zulu speaker to operate as an administrator......What is John Laband doing with his free time in Canada!?! It might also broaden the debate and foster even great understanding on the Zulu side [mindful of the work that JY already does to maintain links with the Zulu Royals, etc]. By the very nature of the language spoken [typed] on the site, we are a very English language centric lot!

Only an idle thought on a beautiful sunny morning in Hampshire!

Thoughts?

AMB

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:25 pm

'The Scholar's Zulu Dictionary', was the book I previously owned, which was quite helpful, but have there been any other Zulu dictionaries published, that may be more useful, before I buy this one again ?

Thankyou

Coll

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:26 pm

Athough not strictly a dictionary, Keith Smith's recent work A Lexicon of Zulu Military Units is much more than the title describes, as it not only contains a very impressive compilation of every possible term you could think of relating to the Zulu military system (with a translation & explanation of each) but an excellent section containing chapters on the Zulu military system and a catalogue of military campaigns and incidents, arranged chronologically from the time of Shaka to the 1880s.

Very handy, inexpensive, highly recommended and available, I believe, through Martin's regimental museum shop.

Peter

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:24 am

Peter

Thanks for the suggestion.

Coll