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Harold Raugh
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Hi Michael,
I suspect the second reference you are looking for is: Colenso, Right Rev. J.W., Bishop of Natal. The Zulu Nation, with Extracts from the Bluebooks. 2 vols. Bishopstowe, Natal: n.p., 1884. Cheers, Harold |
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Keith Smith
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Michael
Your first quote is not well known, but comes from the statement of 1387 Driver Elias Tucker, N/5 Brigade R.A., in The Western Morning News, 28th March 1879. I would be happy to email the text of it, but it is not very reliable. KIS |
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Michael Boyle
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Hi Harold
Thanks, I've never come across it before, good thing you'll soon remedy this sort of thing with a simple look-up! Judging by the date of the NYT article it would seem at that time it remained untitled but it says a lot for the man that his literary progress was noted over here even four years before the book was published. I know that his daughter's previous work "History of the Zulu War..." contains extensive Bluebook quotes, I suppose they collaborated on them. Pity though, I doubt I'll find the book anywhere now. I have downloaded the second and third set of "Parliamentary Papers" presented on the A-ZW but the first continues to elude me. I was hoping Colenso's book could help fill in the gap. Thanks Keith I would appreciate that kind offer, I'll add it my 'Keith Smith' folder of all the previous help you've given me! (I also have folders from the many others here who have aided me over the years, unfortunately it turns out that that is not the most efficient method of storing references!) Perhaps my hazy recollection of it is the result of your including it during one of the discussions here pertaining to the question of both the battle's beginning and duration. Would that unreliability you refer to stem from Tucker averring things he was no longer present to aver? He certainly wouldn't be the first, but judging from when it was published, one couldn't ascribe that to old age! Thanks again Michael |
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Paul Bryant-Quinn
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Michael
If you have a copy of Jeff Guy's study of Colenso, The Heretic, you will find a useful summary of Colenso's enormous labours in compiling extracts from the Blue Books in what he called a 'Digest' of affairs in Zululand. Too long to quote here in its entirety, few could disagree with his judgement on the importance of what was achieved:
I spent some days plowing through the Digest when I was last at the Killie Campbell. It is indeed fascinating for its range of source material, its detail about the war, and its commentary on the events of those times. I would love to find out if there is a copy of it here in the UK - do you know, Howard? |
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Harold Raugh
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Greetings Gentlemen,
The book Paul refers to is: Colenso, John W., and Harriette E. Colenso, comp. Digest of Zulu Affairs. 3 vols. Bishopstowe, UK: n.p., 1878-1888. I cannot locate any publicly held copies of either of the two Colenso books under discussion in Europe. Sorry. Regards, Harold |
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Michael Boyle
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Paul
Thanks for the information, I don't have that book of Guy's but I will look into it. Harold That makes two works I've never come across then. There does seem to be a copy of the Digest available from Archival Publications International but entitled "The Colenso Collection: Digest upon Zulu Affairs". They seem to also offer "Archives of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879 (Royal Presentation Set)" which sounds suspiciously like the Sonia Clarke work. The site isn't very informative but then I guess Rolls Royce dealers don't have to be either! Killie Campbell has it on microfilm (with an incredible array of other offerings) that I originally thought could be viewed on-line but after registering with them all they offer is their extensive list with instructions on how to access their collection when in town. I have been unable to locate any publicly held copies of either work in the US yet but I did come across this- Digest Upon Zulu Affairs, [1879-83] By John William Colenso Published by The British Library, Reference Division, Reprographic Service, 1976 So there may be an avenue for further enquiry in Britain. Best Michael |
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Paul Bryant-Quinn
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Michael
Colenso's Digest is a monster. Hundreds and hundreds (well, 900+ to be exact) of close-printed text, and the volumes themselves are not small. It's the kind of compilation you could spend a very long time reading, and there's no index ... But it is an absolute treasure-trove of report, correspondence, comment and analysis: not just of the war, but also of what followed it, and of Wolseley's disastrous thirteen-region settlement. Sobantu was working on this pretty much up till his death, and it was a labour of love on his part on behalf of the Zulu people. Has anyone else here worked on the the Digest? What was your experience? |
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Keith Smith
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Michael
Archival Publications was the publisher of the Archives of South Africa: Zululand, in six volumes. Your set sounds suspiciously that one. It originally sold (new) for �970.00. KIS |
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rich
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I'd just like to mention something that I've just learned about the book publishing industry and there apparently have been some interesting changes.
One that I'm sure most of you know about is that Kindle device from Amazon where your "book" is downloaded to it. It's nice but I'm not as ready to jump on that book bandwagon..... The other is the fact that now some book sellers and publishers will print a book for you "on demand". You give them the title, they print it. Of course not all books would be in play but I'd think this is interesting in the sense that under those circumstances books now could be had much cheaper than before. I'm just thinking that perhaps one day the Archives and other AZW tomes could be had for much much less than they are selling for now. |
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_________________ Rich |
Coll
Guest
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Archives of South Africa : Zululand.
I've often wondered what exactly are the contents of these volumes, information-wise, which makes them so valueable ? If there is no index, how do you know what to expect to find ? They sell for thousands now, do they not ? Coll |
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Paul Bryant-Quinn
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There may be some confusion here between the 'Archives', which Keith has referred to, and the 'Digest' which Bishop Colenso collated during and after the AZW.
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Harold Raugh
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Hi Coll,
The following information, from the publisher's website, provides additional information on the contents of this set of books: Laband, John, and Ian Knight, eds. Archives of Zululand: The Anglo-Zulu War, 1879. 6 vols. London: Archival Publications International, 2000. Contents: Foreword by Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi General Introduction by John Laband Introductions to each section by Ian Knight The documents in the six volumes are arranged under the following twelve subject headings: Volume One 1a. Prelude to war: general survey 1b. Prelude to war: boundary question 1c. Prelude to war: military preparations 1d. Prelude to war: events in Zululand 2. Prelude to war: beginning of the war Volume Two 3. Opening Stages: Islandlwana and Rorke�s Drift 4. Aftermath of Islandlwana and Rorke�s Drift: military events and political fall-out Volume Three 5. March/April: Recovery; battle of Khambula 6. May/June: Preparations for the second invasion; and death of the prince Imperial Volume Four 7. June/July: advance on Ulundi 8. August/September: mopping-up 9. September: capture and deportation of King Cetshwayo Volume Five 10. Naval operations 11. Historical Record: the military campaign Volume six 12. Historical Record: the political arguments The Editors: Professor John Laband is the series editor. He is the author, co-author or editor of 19 books on the history of Zululand in general and the Anglo-Zulu War in particular, including the prize-winning �The rise and fall of the Zulu nation�. He is currently a Senior Professor in History at the University of Natal, and was elected a Fellow of the University in 1997 for his contribution to scholarship. He is joint editor of the �South African Historical Journal�. Ian Knight is the editor of this set on the Anglo-Zulu War. He is the author of 26 books and monographs on the war, a founding committee member of the Victorian Military Society, a consultant to the Anglo-Zulu War Historical Society, and a Research Associate of the Natal Museum in Pietermaritzburg. Documents: British Parliamentary Papers � Documents from the 19 Blue Books relevant to the Anglo-Zulu War. � The 6 Printed Papers dealing with the conduct of troops, the financial costs, and casualties. � Hansard record of proceedings in the Lords and Commons relating to the war. The London Gazette � Various despatches and notices not published in the Blue Books War Office Publications � Pr�cis of information concerning the Zulu Country, HMSO, January 1879. � Narrative of the Field Operations connected with the Zulu War of 1879, HMSO, 1881. Royal Archives at Windsor Included by permission of HM Queen Elizabeth II � Documents on the death of the Prince Imperial and Rorke�s Drift, including Chard�s special report to Queen Victoria. UK Public Record Office � 4 Collections of the Colonial Office Confidential Print. �Manuscript documents, including the unpublished minutes of the court-martial of Lt.Carey for the death of the Prince Imperial. Natal Archives at Pietermaritzburg � Unpublished documents on the death of the Prince Imperial and the capture of King Cetshwayo. South African National Library � Various published works (10 articles, 9 pamphlets and 3 books) on the war. Illustrations � Over 100 contemporary prints from The Illustrated London News and The Graphic. * * * * * * * * * It appears copies can still be purchased from the publisher and also from Foyle's. Cheers, Harold |
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Coll
Guest
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Harold
Many, many thanks for the outstanding information ! I can see now why it is placed so highly, although well out of my league financially. Thanks again Coll |
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Michael Boyle
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Paul
I believe we have mounted a different horse, or more appropriately perhaps are riding two (we do tend that way at times)! Keith, I had thought that the fabled Archives was a product of Sonia Clarke. However re-visiting the site ( http://www.archival2000.com/pages/booklist.html ) I can see where I was further confused as it seems they are offering two versions; the 'Royal Presentation Set' referred to earlier as well "The Anglo-Zulu War 1879", which link clearly shows Laband and Knight, whereas the link to the former title also clearly shows the same Laband and Knight and I had falsely assumed it was a broken link (as the link to the Digest is broken) rather than a separate edition of the same work. (Didn't Sonia Clarke put out a multi-volume work as well?) Coll Click either link and you can see the contents of the set, it's the first time I've seen any particulars on it as well. However they are offering the six-volume set for a mere USD $1800 so perhaps , if we can collect enough bottle-caps, we can go in on it together! Actually, I've found a used set on the internet for $1,510.25 that is sorely testing my resolve towards my financial retrenchment plan (and would further delay my purchase of Keith's books)! Best Michael |
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Last edited by Michael Boyle on Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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