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If I were to have the choice in music, with anything I managed to produce for the big screen, I would use themes/songs, that already exist.

Two songs which inspire me the most, which I play often, are -

Mars. by Gustav Holst.

Brothers In Arms. by Dire Straits.

I'd have to spend some time to think of more, but I know there are others out there, as I have heard them.

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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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Location: Long Island NY USA
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Well you know in my opinion both QT and Kubrick er "like" music but Kubrick is miles and miles and miles ahead of QT's view of music in films.
I don't believe that QT would obsess as much as Kubrick did on the scores for his films. I just don't think he's as much of a music-lover as Kubrick was or to have a conception as Kubrcik had of where music fits in a film.

And the music for 'Zulu Dawn'. I though it puzzling that after the success of 'Zulu' which had African music on the record that none of it was found on the new film. I thought it was sort of a very conventional score and the 'River Crossing' was about the only piece of music I liked on the record.

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Rich
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Regarding 'Zulu Dawn', when having a bit of time to spare, put on the film, but mute the sound at parts where the music fails, and view it with specific music from the 'Zulu' soundtrack.

It's amazing how it 'lifts' the film greatly !

Or, just for fun, use other music on cd, in unison with watching scenes in the film.

Unusual suggestion, I know, but it actually works !

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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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I agree with you about the "River Crossing" score, Rich. I find it a remarkable bit of composing that captures the sense of supreme confidence and martial zeal of the officers while at the same time reflecting the single minded purpose of both the transport oxen and the OR's to simply get through another day.

Is it apocryphal that Alex North had no clue that Kubrick had decided not to use his music in "2001" until he attended the first screening of the film? "There's a bitter pill!"

I'm confused about the so called "war cry" as well. It seems to be universally rendered in print as "uSutu" or "uSuthu" yet it's typically described by contemporaries as sounding like the buzzing of a gigantic swarm of bees and Rattray, in his rancontuer mode, expressed it more as "Zee, zee".
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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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Alex North could hardly help noticing that his score was not going to be used in 2001 well before the premiere, as he was not allowed to complete it! The score available on CD includes all the music that North composed but it is an unfinished work.
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Simon


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Hi,

Sawubona is right to mention the 'swarm of bees' contempory (British)accounts note the Zulu army advancing making a humming noise which was liked to a swarm of bees.

Zulu warriors mention shouting 'usuthu' or 'usutu' when launching attacks (this is mentioned in Mitford). Additionally a warrior called uMhoti recalls the warriors shouting 'Ngadla' ("I have eaten") at the moment of stabbing an enemy.

Cheers

Sime


Last edited by Simon on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paul Bryant-Quinn


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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The Wise will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that as the impi advanced the warriors were saying "Zhi! Zhi!". I suspect that this, coming from many thousands of men, would end up sounding like a swarm of bees.

An elderly Zulu gentleman who told me the story of how he and his family fetched the spirit of his grandfather from the field of Isandlwana said that when they had found it and brought it back home - which was quite a tale - no sooner had they accommodated it than a swarm of bees came out of nowhere and filled the homestead. Everyone sat quietly and no-one was stung. Afterwards, a local wise man (I imagine an iSangoma) said that it was the spirits of other warriors from the impi, with whom the grandfather had fought at Isandlwana, who were greeting his return.

As I said, it was a good story.

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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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Thanks for that, Sheldon. It makes a good story about how late North discovered that his score was not to be used, but from a practical standpoint it seems hardly credible.

That's sort of what I was questioning with the swarm of bees reference. Paul. I still can't see how "uSuthu" can sound particularly beelike, regardless of how many Zulu were chanting it. What is "Zee" or "Zhi" if not the better known "uSuthu"?

Rich, I was also particularly moved by the snippet of music that serves as a "bridge" (musical bridge, not river bridge) during the river crossing and than is more fully reprised while the colour drifts downstream near the end. Nice scene made better by the score.

And wandering further afield: I didn't see mention above of the main theme to "ZULU" (slightly rearranged, yet equally dramatic) used throughout the 1995 remake of "Cry the Beloved Country". Speaking of which (sorry for going even FURTHER afield on this thread), I was watching the 1951 Korda production of "Cry the Beloved Country this afternoon (the one with Poitier in the role of the young priest), and was shocked to realize that "Mbube" was being sung in the background of an early JoBerg scene. Most readers might know it better by the name "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"! 1951-- the members of the Tokens were still toddling if they were even out of diapers then. It is however in it's original version as recently recorded on Ladysmith Black Mambazo's "Long Road to Freedom" CD, so it's not readily identifiable if anyone wants to go looking for it.
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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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I have just asked a Zulu colleague what zhi or zee might mean to be greeted with a blank look.

Oh dear.

Regards

Mike
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Paul Bryant-Quinn


Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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Some authors transliterate that sound s'gee. I'm not sure of its meaning, or even if it has one: perhaps it is more of a martial sound than a specific word. But you can see how (for example) a postalveolar or retroflex fricative enunciated by 20,000-odd men would give the impression of the buzzing of a swarm of bees.

But then again, confronted with 20,000-odd assegai-wielding Zulus, I suspect that the postalveolar or retroflex qualities of their fricatives wouldn't have been the main thing on my mind ...

Shocked

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Simon


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Hi,

In the Osprey book - The Zulu War (MaA series #37) is says on page 35 that a common warcry was "Jii" - meaning 'death'.

This is quite close to s'gee depending on your pronunciation and presumably how many people are chanting it - it is also quite possibly the 'buzzing bee' noise.

Cheers

Sime
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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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Paul

I have this - 'dli' (I am told) which is a warrior thing and means something like 'I have struck' - used at the moment of delivering a blow. These days you might hear it in a game of football when one side scores (I am told).

It is delivered with lots of tongue and teeth and could be taken for a Welsh sound - perhaps more like 'llee'. It certainly doesn't have an Anglo-Saxon 'd' sound at the front when you hear it pronounced.

Probably the same thing as zhi I'm guessing.

Regards

Mike


Last edited by mike snook 2 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paul Bryant-Quinn


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Sounds about right, Mike: I know even less about isiZulu than I do about the Anglo-Zulu War, which is saying something.

Regards,

Paul

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mike snook 2


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And a bit more from my source - I am told that this dli word can also have a meaning like 'force' as in the 'we are strong' sense - and that it might well be chanted repeatedly - presumably to intimidate - which I think is likely to be what David Rattray was citing. The word also sits and the end of a sentence used in response to the cry 'Usuthu'

I also tend to think having heard it pronounced by an authentic Zulu voice that magnified by many thousands of voices, that it is a likely contender for sounding like a swarm of bees.

Regards

Mike
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mike snook 2


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Simon

I have asked about whether it (whatever it is) might mean anything to do with kill or death and so on and been told no.

Regards

Mike
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Zulu Dawn soundtrack movie reference Inglorious Bastards
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