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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:10 am

Good morning

I received a copy of "Zulu" by Saul David for Christmas , and this has renewed my interest in the Zulu War.

Now for my (stupid) question ....

When the bodies of Melvill and Coghill were recovered , the report indicates that they were still wearing their tunics, but were their swords etc
still on the scene? I know that Melvill lost his, plus his revolver was missing a cylinder?

Bascially I'm interested in "Last Sleep of the Brave" by Alphonse De Neuville

I know that the colour was not there , nor the lancers , but the weapons intrigue me ?

any input / or info that i can look up would be greatly appreciated

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:31 am

Good morning to a no doubt sunny Joburg from a distinctly sharpish UK !

Melvill lost his sword on the F Trail - 'Have you seen anything of my sword back there Mr Brickhill?' he asks at one point.

There is a story that his revolver was missing its cylinder but I am unsure of its bona fides. Perhaps somebody could cite the source. Just because it was (perhaps) gone when the bodies were found, it doesn't necessarily follow that the pistol was inoperative at the time of his death (much like the stopped watch could have stopped at any point thereafter, so could the cylinder have been removed at any point post-mortem - though I grant you that would be a strange thing for a Z to do). The reason I say that perhaps both pistols were working, is that Higginson (watching from above) recounts how initially two Z's caught up with M&C, and that both men raised their pistols and shot down their man. Now, Higginson might not be right of course - perhaps Melvill raised his only for it to click on thin air - the missing chamber - and perhaps Coghill fired twice - thus confusing Higginson's long range view of things. Who knows.

Shortly afterwards they collapsed against the rock (now beside the grave) to gather their breath but were attacked in numbers - they got up and defended themselves and Glyn's account of their discovery/burial, records that several dead Zulus were found around them. This might tend to suggest that both had functioning revolvers - or that Coghill was an exceptionally good shot. I don't think they would have taken down any Zulus at close quarters, hand to hand, due to their physical exhaustion.

Hope that helps

Regards

Mike

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:40 am

thanks for the reply Very Happy

as for the JHB weather ..... it's pouring with rain , it's been a nice wet season this year (we normally are on the verge of a drought)

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:41 am

Hullo fellow Anglo-Zulu war enthusiasts.

First let me introduce myself and give a bit of background why I'm here. My name is Tom, online handle Harlechman and I'm part of a group that is bringing the Cape Frontier, Anglo-Boer and Anglo-Zulu wars to a popular computer strategy simulation. We have been researching online and off for the better part of nearly two years and we have some work to show for it.

Our forums: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41

Some screenshots: http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/6814/earlygloucester9eh.jpg
http://img205.exs.cx/img205/9238/regimentalmajor9uz.png
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1843/zuluwomenwarriors5ql.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1218/riflebrigademarching0bd.th.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/91/riflebrigadeambushed9xd.th.jpg

As you can see we plan to cover a wide swath of South African history, actually we will start our scenario in 1806 with the battle of Blauwberg and conclude in 1896 just before the 2nd Anglo-Boer War.

Now our first 'demo' scenario will be based on Melvill and Coghill's ride to Fugitive's Drift and from the paintings I've seen Melvill was in a red undress frock coat and Coghill was in a blue patrol jacket. That's about as much as I've been able to find and I was wondering about the trousers - were they the blue with red stripe or khaki or what...

I hope all the fine folks here could help us out with little bits of information to make our work more accurate.

Many thanks,
Tom "Harlechman"
Zulu Total War Team, Rome Total War Game mod

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:41 pm

Tom,

In his painting of the death of Melvill & Coghill, the artist Charles Fripp depicts Melvill wearing uniform trousers & Coghill wearing Bedford cord riding breeches. Giving that Fripp went to the trouble of getting Coghill's physical look about right, then maybe he done his research on their unforms too.

By-the-way, before anyone jumps on you, it is Fugitives' Drift, rather than Fugitive's Drift.

I for one will give you any assistance I can, having helped a Swiss company whose product didn't come to fruition, with their uniform designs.

John Y.

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:45 pm

John,

I don't think that the information you kindly provided the Swiss Company was in vain.
They went back to the drawing board and re-started from scratch.
I have been told that the website should be finished soon, and that the game will be near to completion towards the end of the year!

Dewi. Very Happy

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:58 am

Is that the Twilyt Productions game? I saw their site but apparently they stopped for financial difficulties. Luckily we're not limited by that - but it does help to keep things going to keep the interest up. My compatriots and I are really interested in the period and it will actually cover all of South Africa and not just kwaZulu Natal 1879. I think it's interesting because you have plenty of variety in combat, not just the usual Euro-Native setup. You can even have Napoleonic style battles with the Batavian republic in 1806 and Portugal is represented as well.

I'm assuming that Bedford Cord breeches are those nice looking khaki breeches similar to those worn by British officers in this period up to WW1 (I've been focusing mostly on the colors and not the names of the equipment I'm afraid). So it's basically finely tailored khaki/brownish breeches, right?

Thanks very much,
Tom

P.S.
Thanks for the correction LOL - Fugitives' Drift

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:56 pm

Tom516,

No, it is not the same company, this game is based on, and is called "The Battle of Rorke's Drift, Every Warrior Has a Name" and is by a Swiss Company.
I believe that the company you mention was from South Africa.

Dewi.

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:56 pm

Tom

Great to hear about the AZW being part of a computer strategy simulation.

Will the battle at Isandlwana also be covered in detail ?

I think I've bored a lot of people with all my Col. Durnford postings over the past year or so, but wondered if there is any chance his image/character may appear at some stage in a scenario ?

Sorry, but I just had to ask.

Coll

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:01 am

Ah, true, that was a South African company. Though that Rorke's Drift game sounds pretty good too. Its high time someone did it - when the recent Alamo movie came out I was hoping to get a hold of the game, see if I could mod it into Rorke's Drift.

While in and of itself it's not about the AZW we are history enthusiasts who have been looking to change as much as can be changed to recreate that period.

Will it be recreated? Leaving out Isandhlwana will be like leaving ice cream out of an ice cream sundae! However, the scale we'll replicate it is still being debated. The big problem is there are many small actions w/c can be simulated at a 1:1 scale but then you have big battles like Isandhlwana and Ulundi - I'm trying to push for a 3:1 scale for the campaign but the historic battles should if possible go 1:1 for smaller actions like Ntombe and Rorke's Drift. The big issue is computing power - the game supports (theoretically) 10,000 figures on screen BUT if you did that (even with all the bells and whistles turned off) you'll start getting choppyness in most average computers. Another option would be staggered arrival of Zulu reinforcements or have the Right Wing come in later from an unexpected angle but we'll have to test it out and see what works.

Actually, I'm hoping to start Fugitives' Drift at about the moment the British defense collapses and your 'army' will include the ff (plans still nothing definite):

Capt.R.Younghusband's company
Col.AW Durnford's force including the Natal Carbineers
Some of the successful fugitives including Pvt. Wassall of the 80th Foot (Mtd Inf detachment), Sgt Khambula of the Edendale Troop NNH, Lt 'Lucky' Essex and of course Melville and Coghill.

Again this will be dependent on scale and whether the Isandhlwana camp and the Fugitive Trail will fit on the game area. Also need to read up on the fugitives for names and stuff (who died where, at least who died in camp and who was running down the trail).

I'll look up your Durnford posts - I just finished some skins for the Natal Carbineers and I think I'll find what you wrote very interesting!

Thanks very much,
Tom 'Harlechman'
Zulu Total War Team, Rome Total War

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:43 am

Tom,

I'm a nit-picker so you'll have to forgive me.

It is Teignmouth Melvill, no 'e'.

Edward Essex was a Captain, not a Lieutenant.

Isandhlwana is the old-fashioned way of spelling it, the modern accepted version drops the 'h' and becomes Isandlwana.

Likewise Simeon Khambula becomes Kambule.

Re-Nevill Coghill's breeches, the colour used by Fripp is best described a light tan colour, I could send you a scan if you'd like?

You got your wish with an Alamo scenario this week from CDV.

John Y.

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:01 pm

Dear Tom,

And also - but this is where Americanisms creep in - the abbreviation for the rank of Private is Pte not Pvt.

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:26 pm

John,
call me old fashioned if you like but I always use the 'Isandhlwana' spelling unless I'm refering to the place as it is at present. If you were talking about something in the last century which happened in 'Rhodesia', you wouldn't say 'Zimbabwe'. You will know better than me, and I'm already crouching ready for the smack, but wasn't the 'h' used more frequently at the time?

Alan

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:31 pm

Tom

Thanks for supplying more details.

There are 2 books available which contain excellent colour plates of Col. Durnford's full uniform. (if required)

It sounds like you are concentrating on the last stands on or near to the nek area, possibly at the wagon park, including the flight down Fugitives' Trail.

There are books which list the casualties and survivors of Isandlwana, as well as the other AZW battles. Names, ranks, units, etc.

One thing is for sure, there is definitely plenty of help available on this forum, for any aspect of the AZW that you may need assistance with.

Coll

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:13 pm

Dear 'Old-Fashioned' Alan,

It is like Cetewayo or Cetywayo being used in lieu of Cetshwayo, we moved on since then.

In 1879 Isandlwana is frequently rendered as Isandula, one 1879 publication (Moodie) uses both Isandhlwana & Isandula. So in vogue was Isandula that that named a lake after it in Anthoony Van Dieman's Landt, I mean Tasmania.

Rhodesia, now there's good one for you - do you mean the old Rozwi Empire? Which evolved into Mashonaland - the land of the Shona people. Or the bit that those renegade Zulus, formerly known as the Matabele, but now referred to as the Ndebele, eventually settled after leaving Shaka's fold - Matabeleland? As far back as the 14th Century there was a large Shona city called Zimbabwe, somewhat pre-dating the arrival of Cecil Rhodes and the British South Africa Company's flag in the 1890's.

Come on drop that 'h'.

Regards,

John

p.s. I still prefer Buffalo to Mzinyathi, and Tugela to Thukela, so maybe I shot myself in the foot! Embarassed