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A Completely CGI Film About Isandlwana/Rorke's Drift ?
Denton Van Zan
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I'm now resigned to the fact that any future film about either of these battles, will be mostly, if not completely, made in CGI.

However, for the present I'm focussing on the latter -'completely CGI' - which, unlike '300' or 'Beowulf', does not consist of actual actors at all.

I've seen one book, about the sci-fi film made a few years back, but CGI will have advanced a bit further in recent years -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Final-Fantasy-Spirits-Within/dp/0744000718/ref=sr_1_14?s=book&i.e.=UTF8&qid=1281793039&sr=1-14

If you click on the book to see inside, following the shown pages to the one concentrating on the constructing of characters, you'll hopefully be able to visualise how this method can create realistic features (within reason) of anyone, so has potential to more accurately convey the appearance of historical figures.

Now, I'm not trying to convince anyone, but instead, wish to ask if they have this book, and does it cover this and scenery, as well as, weaponry, uniforms, etc., in detail ?

I'd appreciate any reviews about its contents.

Thanks in advance.

C.J.
Denton Van Zan
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Further to the above.

Has no-one the book shown in the above link ?

I've seen very interesting glimpses of its contents in the 'flick through' video, again in the above link, but obviously not been able to clearly focus on the written specifics.

I'm really keen to get this book on the process used to create a fully-CGI movie, in the view of how it could be used for an Isandlwana/Rorke's Drift film.

If I do obtain the book soon, I'll let you know more about it, if required by anyone out of their own curiosity regarding this subject's possibilities.

C.J.
John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Coll,

I don't think you would learn a great deal from that book, or from the film itself, in my opinion.

CGI has progressed a great deal since that production was made, and is still progressing.

John Y.
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Denton Van Zan
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John

Thanks for your reply.

Yes. The film itself isn't really much to go on, but the book, for me being an amateur in such matters, apart from watching the occasional tv documentary or dvd extras, will act like a beginner's guide to the subject.

Apart from the part-human/part-CGI books covering '300' and 'Beowulf', this appears to be the best option so far.

Other books available on the more serious technical side of things, may be too much to take in at present.

I look upon it as research for a feasibility study into this less-known area of film-making, as I feel, not before too long, human actors will be a thing of the past.

I was hoping someone here, rather than reviewers on amazon, etc., might give further details, regarding points of interest in the book, towards using this method for an historically-based film - namely the Anglo-Zulu War 1879.

Thanks again

C.J.
peterw


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 865
Location: UK
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I can only speak for myself - although others may share the view - that I have no interest in how such films are made and have other demands on my time.

Hence no response.

Peter
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Denton Van Zan
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Peter

Yes. I thought that was the case, that's why I mentioned on my obtaining the book, if anyone was curious about its contents I'd let them know.

C.J.
Johnny Hamman


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Dundee, KZN
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I do not even know what it means...what is CGI...?

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Denton Van Zan
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Johnny

Computer-Generated-Imagery.

In other words, a very accurate 3-Dimensional image could be created, showing the whole of the Isandlwana battlefield, as it was in 1879, including the magnificent mountain itself.

More than this, the personalities of Durnford, Pulleine, etc., can be portrayed with their actual likenesses, rather than suitable actors, as well as both the armies can be presented in correct numbers without needing actors and thousands of extras, and can be dressed in fully-detailed uniforms/costumes, using detailed weaponry, without them having to be made, but created and corrected on computer.

The Isandlwana camp itself, could be shown as near to how it looked on the day - tents, wagon park, etc., etc.

It would be fantastic, as with CGI having moved-on progressively, since the above mentioned film the book is based on, as John has said, the possibilties are endless.

C.J.
John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Coll,

I sought some 'expert advice' from my youngest son, who has a degree in Art Animation, he concurred with me about Final Fanasty... being very, very dated.

The BBC did use some CGI in their Timewatch documentary Zulu - The True Story to represent the end at Isandlwana.

John Y.
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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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Johhny,
CGI is all around in today's films. It's pretty much just a fancy word for "special effects" and some well known movies like "Avatar" and "300" almost completley products of CGI. As a matter of fact, a lot of "animated" films like Fantastic Mr. Fox are actually more CGI than animation.
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Denton Van Zan
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There can be so much more attention to detail - no more MH carbines instead of MH rifles, or stand-in firearms for lack of quantity, or (very) badly made uniforms, etc.

As for Rorke's Drift, can you imagine what the possibilities would be like for that battleground ?

The buildings, barricades and surrounding terrain at the time of the battle, can be recreated, with likenesses of Chard, Bromhead, Hook, Hitch, etc., instead of actors who look nothing like them.

A fascinating subject.

C.J.
Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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You seem to be confusing the appearance of historical personages with more substantive matters like their personalities - hardly the same thing, and in fact what people looked like has almost no bearing whatsoever on anything that could reasonably be called history. As for recreating the layout of the battlefields, etc - why not just use your imagination, or paint a picture? And human actors will, I'm afraid, be around for as long as the rest of us, as that is what most humans can best relate to, irrespective of the advances in CGI. Surprising, I know, but there it is.
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Denton Van Zan
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Sheldon

With respect, but you are wrong. If anyone has read my posts the past 5+ years, they'll know that personality plays a very important fact in arguments.

I enjoyed both 'Zulu Dawn' and 'Zulu', but appearances and the personality of the real participants are greatly lacking in both films.

I'm not convinced human actors will always be around, if anything, their egos and pay is beyond what most film companies can afford.

You are a film historian Sheldon, which is deserving of respect, but you are 'behind times'.

With so many CGI films being around these days, many, especially the young, no longer appreciate/understand what imagination is.

C.J.
Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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No, you've misunderstood what I said; read it again. The personalities of historical personages are of course important for understanding their actions; their appearance is not important, except in a very small number of cases (unless you want to argue that, say, Chard's decisions as CO owed something to a complex about his height or weight).
As for the rise of CGI, the lack of imagination I criticised was yours. Aside from those (few) actors who command multi-million-dollar salaries, it's much cheaper for filmmakers to employ real actors than to create them digitally. Even those films that do use CGI figures still use human actors, either as models (in motion-capture films such as "Beowulf", for instance) or to provide the voices (as in "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" and other computer-animated films). Even the recent remake of "King Kong" used a human actor (Andy Serkis) to create the giant gorilla's physical mannerisms and movements. Thespians are in no danger of dying out just yet!
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Denton Van Zan
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Sheldon

'...their appearance is not important..'

I'm not sure what you mean by that - are you meaning in the historical way, as in, when discussing the AZW in the main forum, or in books ?

If so, it is very necessary to know what they look like physically, hence the numerous portrait photos of the participants - faces to names - so we can visually identify them.

If you mean in films, again it is necessary to at least try and have likenesses of them, or else it wouldn't be known who was who.

A recent documentary showed exactly this problem, with the disgraceful portrayal of Hook and how he looked during the battle, and if I remember correctly, a blonde-haired Chard!

So, therefore you are wrong, on both counts.

'...the lack of imagination I criticised was yours.'

What is this supposed to mean Sheldon ?

Additionally, I did say '300' and 'Beowulf' were part-human, part-CGI films.

Doing voices for CGI films does not need movie stars, but can be voiced by anyone that sounds right, even if unknowns, with no previous acting experience, who are able to use their voices to express various emotions.

Thespians need costumes, weapons, sets, etc., for films, plus the necessary back-up teams of costumers, hairdressers, make-up artists, etc.

So, I'm not convinced there is anything in what I've said in this topic, that are needing objected to in such a way, as you have done in your posts.

C.J.
A Completely CGI Film About Isandlwana/Rorke's Drift ?
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