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Edward Savage
Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 780
Location: Brecon
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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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Ferguson73uk


Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 10
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I attended the Dedication of the new Memorial to Edward Savage this afternoon at Cathays Cemetery in Cardiff.

It was a really well-staged event and Bill Cainan gave an excellent 'Day in the Life' account of Edward Savage.

I have posted some photos here:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Thomas-Oscendale-Crime-Novels/185174391530794?sk=wall

Jonathan
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whiteheadalfie


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 40
Location: corsham, wilts
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I really applaud the people who get off their backsides and make these things happen! I wish I had half their energy, drive and enthusiasm. To me a Rorke's Drift defender in an unmarked grave is deplorable. Regrettably there is still a lot to go.

Paul Whitehead
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AMB


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 871
Location: Queensland, Australia
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Some great photos of the headstone and the ceremony.

I note that the chap dressed as an 1879 soldier is wearing a VC.

I'm afraid I have issues with those wearing gallantry medals that they themselves have not been awarded. Re-enactor or whatever. OK, maybe wear the SA 1877-9 medal, but why a VC? Those who are able to wear such things have been to hell and back. I suspect this chap has not.

AMB
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Kiwi Sapper


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 125
Location: Middle Earth & Home of Narnia; (Auckland, New Zealand)
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AMB wrote:
Some great photos of the headstone and the ceremony.

I note that the chap dressed as an 1879 soldier is wearing a VC.

I'm afraid I have issues with those wearing gallantry medals that they themselves have not been awarded. Re-enactor or whatever. OK, maybe wear the SA 1877-9 medal, but why a VC? Those who are able to wear such things have been to hell and back. I suspect this chap has not.

AMB


As a "re-enactor, I agree whole heartedly with you. I have even gone so far as to cut a medal ribbon from the left breast of another re-enactors tunic and place it firmly in his pocket along with instructions to leave it there.
Interestingly, following this, Laughing my re-enactment society consulted the Returned Services Association here in New Zealand and their view is that campaign medals are fine in the re-enacting scenario but bravery awards, NEVER.

Accordingly, I now sport the SA 1877-9 medal and when I think I can get away with it, the British 1900 "Relief of Pekin" medal.

However, my trusty "Knife, Clasp, with marlin spike and tin opener" still lurks, close at hand, in my pocket should I ever see a Bravery award on a tunic. Very Happy

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It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't.
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Colin Fielding


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 99
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
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The medal I was wearing bore no name on the reverse therefore I was not portraying anybody in particular, nor would I EVER infer that I was deserving of one. Before you make comments like this I suggest you find out a little about my background from anybody that knows me. All it does is act as a catalyst for interest in the uniform and the wars in general. It is with immense pride that I can then lead on to my great grandfathers' (John Williams Fielding VC) achievements once discussions/questions have commenced with the general public. I understand your point of view with respect but will make no effort to remove it unless requested ,POLITELY, by the organisers of an event that I attend. Neither you nor I make the rules so just concentrate on keeping this piece of history alive through positive thought and practice. Saying that wearing the SA campaign medal is OK, is tantamount to saying that those who did not receive the VC did not go through severe mental and physical hell ! I think maybe you'll get a stronger reaction to that than me wearing a medal! Is cutting a tunic up respectful ? Hmm, don't think so matey !!Oh, and by the way. yes I have been to hell and back, I was married for 22 years !!

Regards, Colin Fielding
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 923
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Andrew & Kiwi Sapper,

The person wearing the V.C. is Colin Fielding, a member of this forum. Colin's ancestor was John Fielding, who enlisted in the 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment under the assumed name of 'John Wiiliams'.

It was under that pseudonym that Colin's forebear was awarded the Victoria Cross for his actions in the defence and the evacuation of the hospital at Rorke's Drift. For the citation see http://www.London-gazette.co.uk/issues/24717/pages/3177

That said I appreciate the accepted convention that family members may wear their forebear's medals on the right breast which indicates that they are not their own. However, cast your eyes over the photographs that appear on this website that depict similar services honouring Rorke's Drift defenders and I'll guarantee you'll spot Colin in most, if not all of them, there at his own expense and under his own steam to preserve the memory of the men who fought at Rorke's Drift.

John Y.

(Colin, We were obviously posting at the same time. JY)
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peterw


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 863
Location: UK
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I have been to hell and back, I was married for 22 years

That made me start the day with a chuckle.

Peter
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Neil Aspinshaw


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Loughborough
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I have to agree with John, Colin has covered more mileage in this country to attend re-dedications than most. The fact he has chosen the uniform of a private soldier, and to portray his Great Grandfather as he would have been in 1880 is 100% historically accurate, and why shouldn't it be, he's not adorned with false rank stripes, and he is there to represent him as he would have been, not to claim false accolade.

I know if Colin was in Civvy he'd wear them on his right breast, because he has the right to, but you know what, he doesn't.

Kiwi, perhaps a bit harsh, I do agree though that too many re-enactors adorn themselves with medals, decorations that they have no right to do, as a member of the Diehard Company, rules as to what can and cannot be worn in the company is determined by actual experience, for example, and you might look to use the same formula over there

If as a member you have been involved in events or filming, in kit representing the regiment in South Africa then the SA ribbon may be worn,on home service uniform, likewise those who were involved in the four feathers filming, in kit may wear the Egypt ribbon. Last year those who attended the re-enactment in the Crimea may to chose too to wear the Crimea ribbon.

Marksman badges are earned for our annual musketry competition at Bisley, service stripes are earned through time served. You earn it, rather than just wear it for effect, its a simple rule, but one that is worth adhering to.

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Alan
Site Admin

Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1326
Location: Wales
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I have been to hell and back, I was married for 22 years


Sorry about the past tense Colin. I beat you - 23 years.

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Kiwi Sapper


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 125
Location: Middle Earth & Home of Narnia; (Auckland, New Zealand)
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Colin Fielding wrote:
..............Before you make comments like this I suggest you find out a little about my background from anybody that knows me..............Regards, Colin Fielding


What Ho Colin,

I appreciate your efforts in explaining the perspective from which you venerate your ancestors achievements and it is VERY unfortunate that you feel I am casting aspersions upon them. I can but stress that this is the most furtherest aspect, from what I laughingly, call my mind.

I can only comment upon the "scene" as I see it here in New Zealand and again mention, that MY perspective is from the role of a re-enactor. The incident of cutting the ribbon from a tunic was in respect of a member of our re-enactment society who was wearing a borrowed tunic whilst collecting money for the Returned Services Association here on "Poppy Day". He had no association at all with either the uniform, the award, nor any military history and was wearing the award on his left breast.

Here in New Zealand, and again I can only point out, that is my perspective, the Returned Service Associations have a VERY firm policy that relatives may proudly wear their ancestor's awards on appropriate days of remembrance, with the only limitation being that they are worn on the right breast as an indication that they are honoring an ancestor as opposed to having won the award themselves.

I do not know whether the same distinction is observed in Great Britain, but it sure as hell is here.

To conclude, my issue is not with descendants wearing an award, but HOW they wear it and from the personal messages I have received, I have no doubt that your lineage has the right to proudly display medals of Valor.

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It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't.
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Colin Fielding


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 99
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
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Hi, well that's that all done and dusted then. In civvies I would wear the medals on the right but that would mean continually changing the medals around so that the VC was nearest the heart, as I'm led to believe that is the correct format.

Regards, Col.
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AMB


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 871
Location: Queensland, Australia
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Colin,

As I started the medal wearing issue off, and as you kindly ventured your reasons why, I think I should reply.

Firstly, you most certainly ARE entitled to wear the VC; albeit as it was awarded to your illustrious forebear, it should only be worn on the right breast.

Well done - and thank you - for keeping the bravery of those at RD alive. Modern generations more readily associate with things that they can touch, see and talk to(!); your presence at such events, I'm sure, brings great value.

AMB
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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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It seems a bit odd that the UK doesn't have way more strict laws regarding the manufacture, display and disposition of the VC's. Not that it's necessarily a better thing, but here in the USA the law is quite explicit about these matters when it concerns our equivalent Medal of Honor (more commonly but less properly known as the "Congressional Medal of Honor"). No reproductions are permitted at all, not even for a replacement to be given to the award winner if the original is lost! Absolutely no selling at all. Never to be worn by anyone other than the original recipient under any circumstances. Yadda, yadda...

Again, I don't think it better in any way--just peculiar that Yanks who aren't seemingly as tradition driven as Brits have so much more draconian rules. Why is that I wonder to myself wonder I?
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The Scorer


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 317
Location: Newport
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Can someone post some directions to the grave (best entrance, etc.), please?

Thank you.

Smile
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Edward Savage
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