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John Chard RE...a "fighter" first and foremost
rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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Recently, I happened to get a book, "Honourable Conquests" on the exploits and contributions of the Corps of Engineers on the global stage. Fascinating. Their activities around the world parlayed the creation of infrastructure which got the world on its "merry way". Also, they were first and foremost not considered "engineers" but "combatants" when they were doing their work all over the world.
Just wondering if Chard was atypical in gaining more fame as a "combatant" than an engineer. Were there any other RE's who were renowned more as a fighter rather than in military science?

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AMB


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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Rich,

Off the top of my head:

1. Gordon
2. Kitchener
3. Wall (Comd 1 (UK) Armd Div, Iraq)

AMB

PS. Didn't Chard 'only came here to build a bridge'!
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rich


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hmmmm..I don't know. Is it the fact they are a RE and that makes them great fighters or is it that intinsic fighters make great RE's??? Those fellows you noted probably could have given the ancient Alexander a run for his money. They were no pushovers. In any case, I'd guess there was something in Chard's life that prepared him for Rorke's Drift!

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AMB


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Rich,

It was once said that extraordinary times allow ordinary people to do extraordinary things.

I think that Chard, et al, were just normal blokes professionally going about their business; soldiering. Regardless of their capbage, trade or experience, they would fight for their mates and in accordance with orders. That some were recognised for their heroism was a fortunate bonus.

I suspect that had more survived the carnage of Isandhlwana, more individuals would have been recognised for their courage on that battlefield.

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Where's mention of the good Col. Durnford ?

He's more remembered for Isandlwana (and Bushman's Pass), than any engineering work he accomplished, at least, to many.

How many outside of Zulu War forums are aware of the great fort he was involved in constructing ? - I think it is a museum now.

That reminds me, did I once ask if the blueprints/plans of the fort are available from any source(s) ?

I've only got a little sketch of the plans in my Droogleever book, that are not exactly highly-detailed.

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Rob D


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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If you want to list all the Royal Engineers who could be remembered for their "military" rather than "engineering" achievements then Sir Charles Warren should be there - but I suppose if your last combat experience is less than successful, then you're likely to be omitted.
Rob
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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You can add the Corps officers who were appointed Field Marshals...

Sir John Fox Burgoyne
Lord Napier - who helped Lord Chelmsford refine his logistics skills in Abyssinia
Sir Lintorn Simmons - a friend of Empress Eugenie
Lord Nicholson

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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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I suspect that had more survived the carnage of Isandhlwana, more individuals would have been recognised for their courage on that battlefield.


Of course, it goes without saying that all those who fought at Isandhlwana had great courage. And in a way yes it's too bad the the number of casualties were so great since we lost many visual and verbal events of the battle. I am one for history and what it can reveal of the past but it cannot explain all.
Isandhlwana has always intrigued me because of a recent concept called "the tipping point" by a noted social science writer. It's the time of "critical mass" that causes a monumental change in what went before. From the start, participants most likely thought they could 'control' the battle, that is, to confidently deal with what they were seeing. But at some point in the battle that so-called "tipping point" occurred. I don't know but my theory is that combatant RE officers who already deal with calculation, reason and logic and attention to detail have a plus when it comes to assess and execute in the face of tough events. If Chard was commanding at Isandhlwana rather than Durnford/Pulleine, I'd think we would have seen a different battle. I wouldn't go and say he would've won. But perhaps he could have appreciated that 'tipping point" so as to salvage something of the battle or perhaps even win it. Perhaps at a particular point he would have seen and thought that it was gravely critical for the entire army to simply pull in together as quickly as they can taking tough casualties initially with the maneuver but to forestall carnage later. Just a big what-if!
As you can see Chard as commander at RD gets high merits with me. A brave man commanding other brave men in the face of great killing odds.

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Rich

I'm not so sure about Chard's abilities to have made any difference at Isandlwana, as I feel he would've been well out-of-his-depth like Pulleine was, perhaps even more so, as I don't think he had the same dynamic qualities as Durnford nor the motivation and leadership.

In my own opinion, Chard excelled at Rorke's Drift, due to its small perimeter, compared to the Isandlwana camp, where the latter's sheer scale might possibly have overwhelmed him (mentally) and his capabilities.

This is just my own opinion, as I've not researched Chard's character in any depth.

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rich


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Well you're opinion is certainly valid with the "what-ifs." And from experience here I know we can get into tough waters when we try to fix who or what caused the Zulu to annihilate an experienced British army in the field. There certainly was a 'tipping point' in the battle and I know a few hats are in the ring on that.

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Rich

The 'tipping point' was really at the very beginning, before the engagement, as per TMFH.

However, I think the 'tipping point' was indeed recognised by an R.E. officer, namely Durnford, when he rounded the Conical Koppie and saw the deployment of the 24th companies.

He must have been horrified ! Shocked

Pulleine and the 24th would have thought they were doing okay, Durnford on the other hand knew what was following behind himself, noticing the huge gap on the right of the firing line, hence his decision to hold the donga.

He must have knew it was over - the Zulus had 'got them' and got them good - as Mike Snook once said, in chess terms a 'Fool's Mate' - one of the fastest checkmates you can get.

Game over before it's begun !

We might have been out to checkmate their King (Cetshwayo), but they checkmated ours (namely Frere or Chelmsford) pronto quicko.

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Bill Cainan 3


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
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Hi Coll

I did send you some pictures (one of which was the plan) for Fort Durnford in Estcourt some time ago. Did you not get them ?

Bill
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Bill

I do recall your kind offer, but I think at that time my e-mail was not working, eventually having to be renewed, so I was unable to obtain any messages and/or images.

Thankfully, my new e-mail is working fine now.

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Bill Cainan 3


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
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Coll

I'll try and dig out the images again for you.

Bill
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John Chard RE...a "fighter" first and foremost
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