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The War Horses. By John Weston ?
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A new appeal for help in finding this elusive book.

This is the novel about a group of Boer horsemen who not only fight Zulus in Africa, but Indians in the Old West.

Apparently, it was considered for a film, as mentioned in Sheldon's book.

Any assistance in finding this title would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

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rich


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Coll:
That's a tough one...just doesn't look like it's in print.

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Rich

Yes, it is difficult to find.

It is mentioned in Sheldon's book on page 363, with an illustration of the trade advertisement from 'Variety', 22 April 1964, for what was to be a collaboration for a film that never happened.

John Weston's 'The War Horses', obviously was published pre-1964, possibly in the U.S., but I've no idea if it was limited to a set number of prints, or was a mass market paperback.

However, logic dictates it may not have been the latter, as I think in that case at least a few copies would be in circulation.

I'm really interested in the concept of the story about a group of Boer horsemen fighting in Africa and the American West, which also matches nicely with the concept of U.S. weapons and equipment heading to Africa in their hands, at the time of the Zulu War 1879.

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Peter Ewart


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US weapons were already heading for the land of the Zulu half a century earlier.

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Peter

Yes, though it was quite difficult discussing them on the firearms forum of this site, due to lack of mention or presence of various U.S. firearms in the Zulu War 1879, especially any from the American Civil War or even the American Indian Wars era.

There was mention of firearms trading in Africa by the Portuguese(?) amongst others, but these appeared to be mostly obsolete flintlocks, etc., with no reference to quality firearms from the U.S., unless brought over to Africa by American adventurers, or British adventurers who had acquired them beforehand.

I've been wondering about how much American presence there was in South Africa in the 1870s, perhaps disillusioned ACW soldiers after their war ended seeking a new life, or civilians.

However, I've never tried to find out if the U.S. was interested in Africa pre-1879.

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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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I'll have to consider this further, Coll, but my first thought is that we (I'm a Yank, of course) were in one our isolationist phases in 1879-- we just had too many other concerns much closer to home to have much interest in South Africa. There was plenty enough gold to be dug, malefactors to be brought to justice and obstreperous natives to be "civilized" without shagging halfway around the globe to find more.

Yeah, a few Winchester '73's sure would have come in handy for the British at Isandlwana. But keep in mind that the military establishment then (British and American) wasn't exactly on the cutting edge of technology. After all, we entered our "Spanish-American War" in '98, twenty years later, armed with the same single-shot firearm technology that failed Custer.
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Alan
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Sawubona wrote:
... without shagging halfway around the globe to find more.


Another difference between our two languages (I trust)?

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Sawubona

Yes. I'm only really aware of the U.S. being involved abroad in the 'Boxer Rebellion' years later, but only due to watching the film '55 Days At Peking', so don't know how involved they were or why ?

Trade perhaps ?

Makes me think they might have had agents/surveyors/advisors in Africa in the 1870s, due maybe to the diamonds or gold, though not necessarily recognised as U.S. officials.

That said, there might have been others not offical - gunrunners, etc., who had made their way over, though I've never read mention of such, at least at the time of the Zulu War 1879.

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P.S. Alan's right. A more apt word might have been better. Laughing
Sawubona


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Ooops, Sorry about that choice of word. I overlooked the fact that said word, although common as a verb over here in semi-polite company, isn't a particularly nice one in British slang. In my defense, an online definition:

(2) shag
n.a dance step of the 1930s consisting of a hop on each foot in turn.
intr.v. shagged, shag�ging, shags
To perform or execute this dance. " Embarassed

Somewhat further down in the definitions offered is that other, " chiefly British slang" meaning.

We often use it to denote travel towards a destination by a round-about route, typically with frequent interruptions. I promise not to use it again!
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Peter Ewart


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Now if we had only insisted on adherence to the OED ...

Laughing
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Sawubona


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Now Peter, don't make me pull out my OED (which is a backroom bookshelf somewhere) and look up THE word. Is it possible that your (plural) interpretation of "shag" is historically more correct? So what exactly is a shag carpet or for that matter, a shaggy dog?

Not "trade", Coll, but bald-faced Imperialism. It's just my humble opinion, but our war with Spain back in 1898 was a pretty blatant territory grab. Well, maybe not "just" my opinion at that. It was a popular war at the time (as most wars are among the winners and the obvious winners to be), but many talking heads even at the time would have appreciated just a bit more subtly of "cause".

For perspective and to put this all within the context of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879, you have to keep in mind that diamonds had only been found in Kimberly some thirteen years before the AZW and we Yanks had never been much into diamonds (we don't have a lot in the ground) Gold however, which we already did know well and loved even more, still had another decade to go before being discovered in Johannesburg. It was only then that Southern Africa in general and South Africa in particular began to get labeled on the world maps hung in American classrooms.
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Another well known variant is brought to mind with Christopher Isherwood's familiar bit of nonsense rhyme:

The comon cormorant or shag
Lays eggs inside a paper bag
... etc etc

The Spanish-American reference immediately brings us back to WSC and his exciting 21st birthday! Had he hung around Cuba for another year or so, he might have found himself fired on by his maternal countrymen, rather than their supporting his efforts, as in his later life.

The American presence in Natal (or what became Natal) from the 1830s onwards and in Zululand during the 1830s was perhaps far from negligible. The brief gun-running escapade(s) of the St Michael was/were unconnected with the sudden influx of a small number Americans in the mid-1830s, sent by the American Board of Missionaries. Some were back in the States after a very few years but had already experienced some unbelievable times. People like Champion, Adams, Venable, Lindley, Grout and others undoubtebly left their mark, either from their long term activities or their chronicling and publishing of their (sometimes brief) experiences. Those who remained were very active indeed for some decades, mostly in the east of what became Natal, but elsewhere too, into the 20th century. I forget for a moment whether it was William Ngidi or Magema Fuze (it may have been both) who had been originally converted and educated by the Americans near the coast. Both men certainly left their mark on the history of the region and, in Ngidi's case, indirectly on the world.

The Americans didn't care to hang around Mzilikazi or Dingane for long, however! Talk about dangerous moments with those two! For example, just as Piet Retief's head was being bashed in and he joined his 70-odd mates as the vultures' dinner that day, and before the kerries had hardly been wiped clean, an American wandered up to the main entrance of Dingane's capital and asked what the hell was going on!!!

Peter
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rich


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The American presence in Natal (or what became Natal) from the 1830s onwards and in Zululand during the 1830s was perhaps far from negligible.


It's interesting there that rather than guns the export was a particular religious consciousness considering early US history and its march to the middle of the 19th century. Slavery certainly concentrated the mind of all those who went to Africa to teach and no doubt convert. If guns increasingly were the export I can see parliamentarians in Parliament up and arms against the "Americans" who no doubt would have been looked upon as interfering in British interests in Natal South Africa. Ordah! Ordah! We protest to the American ambassador!

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rich


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And on that subject of "language", I've noticed that more and more I am hearing commercials with that British lilt. What the "accent" is I don't know. Now it sure doesn't sound like a Cockney one but comes off to me as a "smoothed out" Brit accent. (hmm..maybe they take the "average" of all the UK dialects.... Wink ). Now really I would've liked to have heard some Welsh in there but those guys in commercials I know just would not use it. Probably confuse the colonials, eh??

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Thanks for your replies.

If I could just ask if anyone finds 'The War Horses' by John Weston, to please let me know - that is if not wanting it yourself. Wink

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The War Horses. By John Weston ?
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