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I think I have found my new fascination! ( Zulu War )
Johnny_H


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Canada, Halifax Nova Scotia
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OK so I guess this is why we are all here after all at this forum, but I really think that the Anglo Zulu war is becoming my new fascination. I am pretty new to the Military History scene, only 23 and I hold no degrees or courses on the subject. I am for all intents and purposes a "Reader due to interest", all I have read the last few years and much more frequently in the last few months has been about the Second World War ( my favorite history subject ).

That being said, I have always ever since childhood been interested in the Anglo Zulu and Boer War. I have always sort of been weary though of reading about this material because I imagined most of the books would be purely academic, dry historically accurate to the point of obsession text books. Although I am interested in the subject, I cannot get through a book that isn't a page turner, or has some sort of excitement to it.

I just read "The Curling letters of the Zulu war "There was an awfull slaughter" by Adrian Greaves and Brian Best, and am currently addicted to reading A.Greaves "Across the Buffalo". I have been advised to be weary of A.Greaves by two members of this forum, not knowing any better for the time being both books have really impressed me.

Now I think I am going to get Mike Snooks Book "How Can Man Die Better: The Secrets of Isandlwana Revealed" and his book about Rorke's Drift ( Pre-Ordered ). So the Anglo-Zulu war is very fast becoming my topic of choice (The Second world war needs a break eh Wink )

I don't know if I am totally crazy but I do believe I saw a user named "Mike Snook" here and if that is indeed the Author, I think that is great and I look forward to reading your work.

So what are the suggestions from the current forum members here for someone starting out? a somewhat neophyte to the subject, I really doubt anything too "Heavy" will maintain my interest, its not that I am not interested in the facts, I am but I also need some sort of suspence or general feel for the action, not just troop movements and theory's on who was right and who was wrong.

So any suggestions?
thx in advance.

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Michael Boyle


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 595
Location: Bucks County,PA,US
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Welcome to the club Johnny, I think you'll find yourself among many like-minded individuals. Yes Mike Snook is one of many published contributors here and I believe you'll find both his books real page turners (as are many of the author's represented here.) My first suggestion would be to use the Google search this forum device available on the home page here.

As you say you're not all that interested in the facts then Adrian Greaves and Saul David are your men! (Sorry that's a flippant cheap shot but I couldn't resist! I actually find much worth in many of Greaves published articles.) They have not exactly endeared themselves to this forum with their weak fact checking prior to publication. You see most of us here are all about the facts (as least as they hold to our own opinions!) and I imagine that after spending some time reading on the subject that you too will find yourself much more interested in the well debated 'facts of the matter'' presented in these discussions.

Best

Michael
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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 920
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Hello Johnny

Yes, that's me. I hope you enjoy it. But don't turn the pages too quickly - give it time to sink in!!

Regards

Mike
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Johnny_H


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Canada, Halifax Nova Scotia
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Well thanks for the replies.

Let me say that its not that I am interested in "the facts" its just that I am not yet at a level where I can clearly define fact from fiction ( or revisionist history, perhaps lack of research ). I figure if I read as much as I can than eventually I will be able to make such distinctions. I however chose not to ignore certain titles/authors because even if say in Greaves "Across the Buffalo" there are errors stemming from lack of research then eventually I will have read enough about the subject to be able to make that call.

I have seen many authors of Zulu war books some being James Bancroft, Ian Knight, Sheldon Hall ( his title about the film is being shipped to me as I type this ), Mike Snook ( Thank you for your reply to this thread Very Happy ) and there are more then a few others that I have found on amazon.ca and in the book titles list on the main page at rdvc.com.

I am absolutly hooked to "Across the Buffalo" at the moment, because I am only really familiar at this point with what the movies covered, and this paticular title seemed like a good choice, as it covers the entire campeign and its not hard to read or follow.

I can dig out a example where I read a book that has been the subject of much debate even though it really dosnt compare to a Zulu war book as there are logical reasons as to why the "Facts" might be mixed up. This title is Guy Sajers "Forgotten soldier" which although he gets several things wrong facts wise, he has still produced a masterpiece a book that could just as easily be a novel rather then a memior, but shows the pure terror and suffering that these men went through. Yet there are allot of factual errors in this book, from calibers of weapons, names of towns, even the moment he joined the GrossDeutschland he mentions feeling like it was one of his most proud moments and gos on to tell us about how he sew the division cuff title on the wrong sleeve ( he says left but it was infact sewed on the right ) So despite these and knowing better I was able to over look these discrepancies because his point and his mastery of his craft were exceptional.

I'm sorry if this is a long post, and I don't intend to stray off topic. If I had of restricted myself, because there were hints that "the facts weren't all there" I would have otherwise missed out on a amazing title, a book that I probley will not forget reading despite its flaws. ( I knew about the controversy of this book well befor reading it infact I read a debate by two US Army officers who are well educated on the matter's debate ). This really dosnt relate to a Zulu war book because this was written by a man who claims to of endured the hell of the eastern front, at a age of 17 so its easy that he would mess up some things, and not be a scholar on the subject, most vets who are alive today cannot give you extreme well rehearsed specifics, and as "Experts" who write books about a time period with more then enough documentation I can understand why its expected of "Greaves" to get it right the first time.

this post has gone on much longer then I intended it too, I'm reading Mike Snook's book about Isandhlwana ( I feel like Denholm Elliott everytime I try to spell that correctly Isand ... Isandl... Laughing ) I guess I have to read whats wrong in addition to whats right so that I might be able to tell the two apart? is generally what I am getting at.

thx again, this was waaay too much of a post.

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Jolly deadly old boy! (Adendorff) "
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Johnny Hamman


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Dundee, KZN
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Do not worry about it, Johnny H, as the blokes have said, read David and Greaves if you want a good story. I have read both of them, as well as Ian Knight, Philip Gon, Ian Beckett, Desmond Morris and David Rattray, ... Twisted Evil believe it or not (he does not live very far from me,...that is, if he is not entertaining you guys in the UK) and the single most glaring fact I have realised is that none of these writers are really sure what they are on about, and that we will probably never know what really happened at Isandlwana. It is frustrating to try to get hold of good research work and everybody is contradicting everybody else in it. I have only a B.A in Military History, but I have read it since I was 18 years old, and I still do not know if Cavaye commanded A or E Company!!

Johnny Hamman
Dundee
KZN
South Africa
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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 920
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Johnny Hamman

Cavaye commanded E Company. Full Stop. End of story. His subaltern was Second Lieutenant Edwards Dyson. His sergeants were Thomas Fay, John Edwards and George Bennett.

Can I help with anything else?

M
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Johnny Hamman


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Dundee, KZN
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Mike Snook 2

No. There is a lot of people who will not agree with you. If I need help from you I will be sure to call. Do not hold your breath.

Good day to you,

Johnny Hamman
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Sean Sweeney


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 185
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Well there's gratitude for you.

Maybe you should subscribe to Elizabeth Hogan's AZWRS.

I wonder if David Irving is interested in doing a 'revisionist' view of the AZW for her ? He should have plenty of time !

Sean
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Hear, hear.

Mike is well respected on this forum and in the nature of the research he has done on the AZW. I'd be careful what you say if I were you, Johnny, especially in so public a forum.

Dawn
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Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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Johnny

You must be particularly liverish today - I cannot conceive what Mike Snook did to provoke such an unpleasant response. I am sure that he will not respond to your jibe but I certainly will. The'many people who don't agree [that Cavaye was in command of E Company] are wrong, and if you believe that he commanded some other company, then you are wrong too. Please give any evidence you might have that this is not so.

KIS
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Johnny_H


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Canada, Halifax Nova Scotia
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Johnny .. Johnny ...


was confusing there for a second, maybe we should have numbers?

I call 612 Laughing

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Jolly deadly old boy! (Adendorff) "
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Johnny_H
Perhaps you should give us a bit more info on yourself so that we know you are not Johnny Hamman under another guise.

We're a bit old fashioned here and like to deal in real names, not numbers. You can go to your bank for that.

That doesn't stop a few using a non de plume.

(By the way, where is Edward Bear these days?)

Dawn
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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 920
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Dawn

Well that's the 'world wide web' for you.

Johnny H has introduced himself elsewhere on the site and is a polite well mannered Canadian. He should not feel under any pressure as a result of the posting above from a quite clearly different person, who had earlier declared himself to be one of your former countrymen, and has proclaimed himself to be another battlefield guide in Dundee.

Johnny H

Don't worry - if you want to fire in any questions that I can help with, please feel free to do so. This other chap clearly knows all about Isandlwana and will get along fine without my help.

Regards

Mike
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Johnny_H


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Canada, Halifax Nova Scotia
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^^ Thanks, I was only kidding about the number ( Zulu Movie referance )
As you previously mentioned, I have as far as I recall properly intorduced myself, if anyone would like anyfuther information I can gladley answer any concerns via PM.

I just don't want to state my Name, Rank and Serial number because this other guy decided to "Be the Expert"

I will fill out my profile, something I have just been too lazy to get around to doing.

Thanks again, Mike Snook the courtesy Very Happy is greatly appreciated, the only thing I can really do is assure you and others I am not this other person.

BTW I just ordered How Can Man Die Better: The Secrets Of Isandlwana Revealed - Hardcover ! I'm such a impulsive spender Embarassed

--- Edit ---

Really the only thing I can offer, is that I have been posting at www.militaryphotos.net/forums for a while now ( since 2004 ) and if you check the military history and some other sections you will see I'm quite active in them.

I post there under the same name as here ( which is what I use for all online log in names )

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"It looks, er, jolly simple doesn't it? (Bromhead to Adendorff)
Jolly deadly old boy! (Adendorff) "
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Johnny Hamman


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Dundee, KZN
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Certainly.

Ian Knight, Isandlwana 1879 The Great Zulu Victory, p. 49. (It says Cavaye, A Company.) I know some says E Company, but the point is that Ian Knight wrote this in his book. You will have to disagree with him., and mr snook can do something about his own unpleasant responses as well. I was simply looking for confirmation, not that end of story remark you gave me, and I was not even addressing you.

And Johnny H is someone else. Look at my own profile.

Johnny Hamman
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I think I have found my new fascination! ( Zulu War )
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