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Johnny Hamman


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Dundee, KZN
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Dawn,

I do not know Mike Snook, and neither does he know me. My real name is Johnny Hamman, and I am most definitely a tour guide in Dundee, KZN. I will gladly believe that Mr. Snook is a well versed author in the AZW. That is not the point. I was also looking for answers, and I certainly did not merit his rude response he gave to my remark, which was not addressed to him. He is not the only AZW expert around. I am most certainly not the best, or the only one, and the point I am making is that Mr Snook does not have the end-of-story-full stop answers to whatever question is posed and from whom. This is arrogant and this is not the first time some of you are running down Dundee tour guides. There are well-researched people amongst us as well, and you do not have the right to insult people you do not know. Why is everyone else wrong, except Mr. Snook? I never insulted him untill he gave me that snotty remark.

Johnny H,

I never proclaimed myself any expert of any kind. That is apparently reserved for the writers on this forum. Maybe some of you should be careful what you say on a public forum. My email address is in my profile. You are free to ask me my credentials, and I will give them to you. You are certainly a well - mannered Canadian, even if a little na�ve.


Later,

Johnny Hamman
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Johnny_H


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Canada, Halifax Nova Scotia
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Johnny H,

I never proclaimed myself any expert of any kind. That is apparently reserved for the writers on this forum. Maybe some of you should be careful what you say on a public forum. My email address is in my profile. You are free to ask me my credentials, and I will give them to you. You are certainly a well - mannered Canadian, even if a little na�ve.


I wouldnt call myself na�ve, I just wont come into a place where I am new, or considered so and start dictating to people whats what, especially where I am not an expert on the subject. If you have reason to say what you said, or you have credentials to back up what your saying, all the power too you and the best of luck.

Seriously, I was just suggesting they might know what they were talking about based of of the fact that Mike Snook has a Book on the subject published, and has another on the way, he also identified himself as such, so i knew that about him. My mistake in your case, I had no idea or any reason to think other than what I thought.

peace

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Paul Bryant-Quinn
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Johnny Hamman,

You have evidently been angered by a remark of Mike Snook's which you see as generally arrogant and insulting towards you in particular. In replying to what you have said, please accept that I am anxious to avoid offending you still further. However, I would like to suggest that there may perhaps be a way forward from this.

To my knowledge, Mike is a first-language speaker of British English; and in his post (as I read it, anyway) he was using a contemporary idiom in frequent use in this part of the world. To my ears, `Full Stop. End of story' need have no particularly pejorative connotations at all, much less pointedly insulting ones. It simply means that the speaker is emphasising a fact as he or she understands it - my head of department says this all the time! Mike considers that research has by now established that Cavaye commanded E Company at Isandlwana, and that earlier writers (Morris and Emery, for example) were mistaken in linking him with A Company.

It may be that a common language has on this occasion divided us; and as I'm sure you know well, the baldness of a written text can itself be misleading in regard to emphasis. In his posts on this site Mike has shown nothing but courtesy and generosity to those, like myself, whose knowledge of the Anglo-Zulu War is minimal and who simply wish to find out more. Also, he knows South Africa well; and I do not know him to have made any adverse statements about the professionalism of tour guides like yourself: to the contrary, in fact.

I will be making my first trip to South Africa in April and May, and can assure you I will certainly be making full use of tour guides while I am there.

I hope this is of help.

Best wishes to you,

Paul
Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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Johnny Hamman

I had hoped that you would respond with some contemporary primary evidence and not a modern interpretation. However, I refer you, in contradistinction, to Ian Knight, 'The Day the Sun Turned Black' p. 108: 'Captain Cavaye's E Company, 1/24th was deployed to the north of the camp.' Sadly, Cavaye never lived to be promoted to captain: he was a lieutenant in temporary command of E Company at the time of his death. You will see, therefore, that even Ian Knight gets it wrong sometimes. He may well have been using C.T. Atkinson, 'History of the South Wales Borderers', p. 342:"To support [Durnford] Colonel Pulleine ordered Lieutenant Cavaye to take out A Company to occupy a ridge 1500 yards North of the camp ...'

If you really are a putative guide to the battlefields, then I suggest you get up to speed by reading, as a minimum, F.W.D. Jackson's 'Hill of the Sphynx' and learn it by heart - it is much more reliable and backs up its statements with primary evidence.

KIS
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Sean Sweeney


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 185
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Sorry Talana Johnny but I can't see what has upset you in Mike Snook's post. He's short, sharp and to the point. (End of story.)
Just the way things are done in the British Army, I guess.

Lets not give us South Africans a bad name for being arrogant and rude,
which we already are sometimes tarred with.

We are obviously all entitled to our own opinions, and this is a forum of free speech, but we try and behave like adults and not throw our toys out the cot. (most of the time !)
Unfortunately we are also in a forum that is centered on the facts, which obviously require to be backed up by research and original source information.
Good healthy argument is encouraged, and you will see this in all the previous thousands of posts.

And to 612 Pvt John. Newfoundland Johnny, hang in there, you're doing a grand job.
I'm sure you will enjoy your trip to the UK, and explore your heritage as I have done.(and the swb museum)
My paternal family also seem to have had a wanderlust, but mine every century.
from Ireland, 18th C Scotland, 19th C S.Africa, 20th C England, 21stC NZ.
I'm proud of it all, esp my country of birth, KZN, and it's history.
cheers,
Sean in 'Godzone'
and as fellow countryman Mahatma Gandhi (and veteran of Spioen Kop with his stretcher bearer corps) once said, "Anger and Intolerance are the twin enemies of correct understanding",
so lets all be a little more tolerant, and a little less confrontational,
all in the interests of better understanding, of AZW, and of each other.
Don't forget, we do have cultural and language differences that have helped define who we are.
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Johnny H

I'm sorry if my reply to you seemed a bit curt. I think I was still aggrieved that someone had not treated Mike Snook with the respect he deserved. This is obviously not you and I hope you will forgive me.

Johnny Hamman

I have been guilty in the past of 'foot in mouth' syndrome and I have apologised when it has been pointed out to me. Your post has certainly raised much response and I think you misread Mike remark completely. As you may, sometime in the future, need some information from Mike, perhaps you could make amends even if you decide to agree to disagree over which company Cavaye commanded.

For your information I have a list of the Parade State of the 24th on 22 January 1879 from Martin Everett, curator of the RRW museum at Brecon, and it clearly states that Cavaye and Dyson were with E company. 'A' company was commanded by Lt Porteous. This list is on this forum somewhere and you can download it yourself by looking through the posts by Martin.

Dawn
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Sean Sweeney


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 185
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Sorry pvt 612, Johhny-H got my New's mixed up.

That should be Nova Scotia.

Sean
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Johnny_H


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Canada, Halifax Nova Scotia
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Johnny H

I'm sorry if my reply to you seemed a bit curt. I think I was still aggrieved that someone had not treated Mike Snook with the respect he deserved. This is obviously not you and I hope you will forgive me.


no reason to apologise, and no reason for me to forgive, as there was never an issue, its common sense that we both are Johnny and then last initial, So I wasn't too taken by suprise, and never stressed it.

its been a warm welcome here, which I appreciate.

Sorry pvt 612, Johhny-H got my New's mixed up.

That should be Nova Scotia.

Sean



You sir should be ashamed ... think about what you have done ! Laughing
* drum roll

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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Brecon
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Lets put everyone's mind at rest.

Getting it right is always a problem for the amateur and professional - nothing is black and white - company clerks make mistakes.

In 'Historical Records of the 24th' published in 1892, Cavaye is shown as commanding A Company 1/24th (page 257) - this is incorrect, but this is a reference used by many people. However, on the fateful day he commanded E Company.

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Robert John


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 205
Location: The Netherlands
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Paul,

You mention that you will be in South Africa in May---if you are at Isandlwana or Rorke's, Drift between the 2nd and the 6th of May and you see a tall distinguished gentleman looking every inch the Englishman it won't be me---I will be the bald one who looks slightly demented!!

Seriously though, Paul, I will be there between those dates---when are you going?

Pob Hwyl,

Robert

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Paul Bryant-Quinn
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Annwyl Robert,

With luck, I will be in Cape Town from 21 - 24 April; in Natal from 25 April - 1 May; and in Zululand from 2 - 12 May. It's something I've wanted to do since I was 7 years old.

Cofion atoch,

Paul
ANDY LEE


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Bournville,West Midlands, UK
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Johnny Hamman

Think you have been out in the sun too long mate, have a cold beer a early night and a good breakfast then read Mike Snook's reply again.

Mike Snook is well respected and always willing to help and I can not see anything other than someone trying to be helpful from his thread. Both Mike Snook's recent books score a 10/10 and he is a asset to this forum.

And
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Robert John


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 205
Location: The Netherlands
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Annwyl Paul,

Have a wonderful time---this is my second visit.
I think you'll find that South Africa has a way of drawing you back.
Don't forget to take plenty of film--it's a beautiful country and, although I am a Welshman and shouldn't say it, much more impressive than Wales.

Cyfarchiadau gorau,

Robert

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Haydn Jones


Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: Gloucester
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[quote="Robert John"]Annwyl Paul,

Have a wonderful time---this is my second visit.
I think you'll find that South Africa has a way of drawing you back.

It's true!! I'm going back for a second time too, 1 - 12 May, - see you there perhaps! I'll be the one standing behind you at the bar!!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing )

H
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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I think it would be a great shame if the brief spat of a day or so ago (above) tended to show Johnny Hamman - who has recently contributed some sane and interesting material - as unfair, rude or unwelcome on this forum.

Paul hit the nail on the head yesterday when he recognised it as a clear case of a misunderstanding. I agree 100% and because of a very understandable misunderstanding, Johnny took exception to a posting. Unless Mike corrects me, I suspect he saw Johnny's post about the ambiguity (in well known published accounts) about A & E coys as a timely opportunity to scotch once again (or once and for all) the idea that Cavaye led A coy - and he did so in a brief post. The fact that he used modern slang - "full stop" & "end of story" - (which was intended to convey the fact that it was most definitely E coy) was fine & understood by most, but no-one can deny that it is also perfectly possible to read the post as abrupt (rather than just brief) and that "full stop" (or "period" to our transatlantic cousins) and "end of story" can also undoubtedly be seen as a strong suggestion that this subject is NOT up for discussion and any discussion on it is not welcome on this forum - a forum which Johnny has just joined and not posted the slightest unfriendly remark until then.

Now I know - and Mike knows - that he had no intention whatsoever of conveying that impression; all his posts are politeness personified. But it is still possible - and it happened here - that a very brief post which also uses slang to emphasise a point can be misunderstood and it is as plain as a pikestaff that Johnny took the remark in that way - as, I believe, anyone could have done, even if most wouldn't. (It is also an occupational hazard of all brief emails). The fact that both Mike and Keith would expect a primary source to back up the A Coy claim rather than a published account had not yet been raised when the original rejoinder came.

I'd therefore respectfully suggest that Johnny is not "cornered" here because he merely reacted to what he thought was a clear slight, even if no slight was intended. Hopefully, he'll soon be back on one of these threads with a smile on his face - after all, as the great man said: "Jaw Jaw is better than War War."

Wink Peter
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I think I have found my new fascination! ( Zulu War )
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