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Johnny_H


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Canada, Halifax Nova Scotia
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Rich wrote:
To all my fellow film patrons...
Just got something over the wireless here..Looks like Georgie Lucas thinks that the days of big budget films are over. He alluded to the recent films at the Oscars which weren't big money flicks. He also mentioned Kong. He thinks all the movies in theaters in the next few years will be "indie" films. I don't know. Maybe that's good 'cause there then could be more of a probability of satisfying our need of getting some films re-made! Wonder if George is right.

LOL Laughing

That coming from lucas is nothin short of incredible ironey don't you think?

People are tired of technical eye candy, it is starting to look all the same untill somethin revolutionary comes out again, Effects simply no longer will carry the weight of a film.

CRASH was and still is one of the most powerfull movies I've seen, it made me happy, uncomfertable, angry, it played with just about every emotion and was a excellent story. This film deserved best picture, and I think a Hungry Indipendant film maker has allot more to prove to establish so it has to be great.

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Well Johnny....get this ..George did ask himself if the going away from big films was "good for business"....heh heh... he said, No!..it was bad for business and anyway movie making is all about "art"!!!..... Wink

You know at this point there isn't any good reason why the Zulu war can't be put on the screen again. The only thing stopping it is just an intense interest and doggedness to get the film done. Heck if penguins can make it today why can't the Zulus? If some believe they surely will follow with the cheques.
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While looking around to find the Alamo soundtrack by Dimitri Tiomkin which I listened to 30 second samples from, I also saw a book title 'John Wayne's The Alamo : The Making of an Epic Film', by Donald Clark.

The reviews of this title are interesting and it definitely appears that John Wayne was indeed very keen to get the film onto the big screen.

I hadn't been aware that there was such a title available, but in saying that, I'm not sure how available it is in the U.K.

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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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I bought the Clark book about ten years ago from what was at the time Zwemmer's Art Bookshop on Charing Cross Road, London, probably as an import from the US. It may still be around some specialist bookshops, but it's surely easier to buy it via the net.
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Sheldon

From what reviews I've read about the title, they say it is highly-detailed and illustrated, covering John Wayne's personal interest in the project.

It seems he risked a great deal financially from his own pocket to get the film into development. However, I've only read a few of the reviews.

Truthfully, I'd be very hard to be convinced that there is a book available
on the making of an epic film, that in any way equals your own about 'Zulu', which is a must for all film enthusiasts.

I really do prefer John Wayne's version of 'The Alamo', which I think would be to Alamo enthusiasts what 'Zulu' is to AZW enthusiasts. I have that version and the recent film with Billy Bob Thornton, and watching both now and again, you can definitely see what makes one an epic and the other, well, a remake without the epic feel.

Last year I searched the internet to see if the screenplay for the the 1960 Alamo film was available, around the same time as trying to find 'Zulu' and 'Zulu Dawn' as well as 'Custer of the West', which is my preferred film version about Custer and the Little Bighorn. Only achieving success with one of them.

This is a pity, as these are films I very much enjoy, but it would have been great to obtain the screenplays also, to assist me in understanding the layout and descriptions of the scenes and dialogue.

There are many scripts available of other films, but the above films are about historical events that I am interested in.

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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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Coll,

Thanks for your praise! The ALAMO book is pretty good: it's one of the models I took for my own tome. It would be not be inaccurate to say the film meant to Wayne what ZULU did to Stanley Baker (indeed Baker referred to Rorke's Drift as having the same significance for the British as the Alamo story does for Americans).

As noted elsewhere on this site, CUSTER OF THE WEST is screening at 10.00am TOMORROW (March 10) in 70mm at the Bradford Film Festival (National Museum of Photography, Film and TV), if you can make it! The only way to see it (followed by HOW THE WEST WAS WON in Cinerama)!!

Best, Sheldon
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Sheldon

Thanks for your reply.

I meant to include in the above that years ago I obtained (but no longer have) a different version of the 1960 Alamo, which unknown to myself, contained lengthier scenes, which I then realised had been quite drastically cut for the film I was used to seeing.

If I remember correctly, the scene with Travis and his officer in his quarters was longer, Bowie and his coloured servant's scene near to the beginning of the film, as well as an 'intermission' which surprised me, showing a painting of the front of the Alamo church while playing Alamo theme, and possibly a couple more.

I have to say that I did enjoy this version, as it did give a bit of a chance to have more dialogue exchanges between the main characters, which I think added more to the film. I felt, that although I enjoy films covering famous events such as battles, you do need to witness conversations between the main participants to help understand the what, the who and the why these incidents are taking place.

I can't recall why this version was available at the time I bought it, but then again, it may have been available all along and I just hadn't known about it.

Thanks again

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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 377
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The longer version is the original 'roadshow' edit, shown at the premiere and in other early engagements, which was cut (by Wayne) a few weeks into the run. The missing sections (totalling about 45 mins) were thought no longer to exist until a complete 70mm print turned up in Canada in the late 80s or early 90s. This was used for a laserdisc and VHS special edition release, restoring the cuts, and was to be the basis of a full-scale film restoration until MGM/UA foolishly stored the 70mm print improperly and allowed it to decay.

It is possible that a proper restoration can still be made (especially as MGM is now owned by Sony, a company committed to long-term film restoration and preservation) but it will be very expensive and time-consuming, so don't expect one soon. Meanwhile, all the DVD editions are of the shortened version, sans even the overture and intermission music (for which there is no excuse). Even the feature-length 'making-of' documentary included in the LD Sp Ed is abridged on the DVD.
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Sheldon

Annoyingly, the longer version that I did have of the Alamo I gave to someone to watch and said "...there was no need to rush getting it back to me." Never saw it again.

It is now the shorter version that I have on dvd, although I still enjoy it, the knowledge of what is missing, having seen the other version, does make it feel incomplete.

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ralph dyer


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 51
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hi all,
talking of custer, i seem to remember a series of custer some years ago, the name of it i cannot remember. something along the lines of morning star. or evening star. any ideas please, would like to see it again.
regards

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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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Coll,
I have the same problem with the remarkable facade of the Alamo as you have with the carbines. That unmistakable silhouette we all immediately identify as the front of the chapel was added on years after the defense, designed by a french architect who apparently thought that's how it should look and doesn't resemble anything that ever was or anyplace Travis, Bowie, or Crockett ever saw. At the end, all of the 250 plus defenders (not 183) were dead, Bowie was either unconscious or already dead when the Mexicans broke down his door (probably from typhus) and it was a short, brutal night battle in the bitter cold that ended before sunrise.
Aside from the forgivable license of allowing Juan Seguin to speak English (which he apparently didn't) the accuracy of the remake is noteworthy-- which could partly explain its poor box office performance in America. Any nation (or state or city, I don't know which) that would demolish the more historically important "Long Barracks" in the Twentieth century for "urban renewal" doesn't seem particularly interested in anything beyond the Myth.
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Ralph

Son of the Morning Star. starring Gary Cole.

A mini-series which had the most accurate example of the battle of the Little Bighorn that I've seen.

It is a shame they didn't have the budget of the larger films being made in the late 90s and now, as the series I feel had great potential and appeared to want to show events as they actually happened.

I liked it. I'm sure I saw it advertised recently on the internet.

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ralph dyer


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 51
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coll.
yes son of morn star thankyou. yes i watched it some years ago, cant remember but maybe 10 at a guess. gary cole i could see his face but did not know his name. good film i actually missed the first episode completely. but it was very good. i must look for it. thanks again coll.

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ralph dyer


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 51
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coll,
oops before i go off to bed it just came to me gary cole i think played also in a series as a dj, midnight something or other am i right ? lol. thats how i knew it was him. sorry to come back. but thats bugging me now lol.

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Sawubona

Yes. In the book I have about the Alamo '13 Days to Glory' by Lon Tinkle, there are various illustrations of the chapel, in paintings, sketches and in recent times.

Even with the flaws I think this film may have drawn many people to pursue an interest in the Alamo and all the events, before and after, much like many of us seeing 'Zulu' and wanting to know more about Rorke's Drift, progressing on to the other battles, etc.

I must admit to feeling disappointed years ago when I found out that the events at the Little Bighorn were much more different from what was shown in most films.

However, in saying that, the films 'They Died With Their Boots On' and 'Custer of the West', made me interested enough to find out more.

There were other films that I liked which covered this battle, but with a different approach. 'The Seventh Cavalry' with Randolph Scott. An officer is sent with a burial party to recover the body of Custer. There was another film, told in flashback if I remember, based on the COI after Custer's defeat. (I think Joseph Cotten portrayed Reno/Bentine ?)

There was a tv movie made recently (90s?) covering the events before, during and after the Alamo. Peter Coyote played the part of Bowie. In fact this tv movie was as good, I think, as 'Son of the Morning Star'.

I like the idea that any new films (including the recent Alamo) focus a bit more on realism and attention to detail, but there is something about older movies, especially westerns filmed in technicolour, that still appeals to me.

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