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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:44 pm

Thought this might be of interest to members...there is a very scarce genuine autograph of Cetshwayo for sale on eBay (item #6619282384) and ending on Monday. It is a sheet of Colonial Office stationery that has been signed by Cetshwayo during his time in London, and bears a hand-written statement beneath it from the person who obtained the autograph. It's only the second one I have seen in my years of interest in the Zulu Wars.

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:56 am

Was the other at Fugitives' Drift Lodge? There is one there, in the dining room.

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:06 pm

Alan,

The signature at FDL is a photocopy produced by Adrian Greaves.

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:31 pm

Unfortunately, I haven't been to FDL yet. The only other Cetshwayo I have seen was in a private collection. There are likely a few around, but these are the only two that I have come across.

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:24 pm

Unless I'm mistaken, I seem to recall an original example of Cetshwayo's signature being brought along to the most recent Chatham "do" (or perhaps the one before that?) by someone whose family had possessed it for some generations. I didn't see it myself but I heard about it in the lecture room just after one of John Young's talks (in fact it may have been JY who related the story to me but I can't be certain).

The most well known example is probably the "series" he produced while in captivity at the Cape, where he had plenty of time to practise. Photos of these appear in one or two books. If he presented gifts to any of the VIP visitors he hosted in the Castle he may have appended his signature, and of course it is likely that he signed here and there during his London trip, so there may be a few examples around - but not that many, I suppose.

Peter

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:17 pm

Multiple choice or write an essay:
A: It's a fake and a new one at that
B: It's a fake, but an old one with impeccable provenance.
C: It's real and the seller just needs the cash.
D: It's real and the seller has a reserve of $50,000 on it because he's just interested in testing the water on it's value before he really tries to sell it.
E: None or all of the above

I've "eBayed" long enough to know that if this is authentic (and I believe it is), it belongs at one of the heavy hitter auctions like Christies or Julia-- and the seller knows that also! He's just "jerkin' our chains" by putting it on eBay and he's got a hidden agenda! And whatever that agenda is, this item won't sell for any price and that gets me cranked up -- eBay "games", I mean.! F.A.H. (use your imagination for that "acronymn").

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:20 pm

Well, it did sell for US $1,486 which equates to �854 or thereabouts. The last signature I saw went for �650 hammer at Bosleys in the UK in March 2004.

Whether that is a good price I could not say but it seems in line with the previous sale.

Peter

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:26 pm

Thanks, Peter! I needed that dose of humility and I apologize for getting a bit "wound up" in my post, but I've seen too much of sellers putting things on eBay with ridiculously high reserves just so they can get their items appraised for free (or very short dollars anyway). And I guess I owe an apology to the seller also!

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:07 pm

Simon
It does look like the actual one which was reproduced in the National Army Museum book Ashe's and Blood. but you would need an expert on these things to be sure.
Clive

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:53 pm

Actually, these autographs of Cetshwayo are more common than one would think. I have seen 7 or 8 in some fifteen years of collecting and owned three of which I still retain two. Both of those I still retain have attached the signature of Captain Poole, RA who was the king's keeper at Cape Town at the beginning of his imprisonment. One is just about an exact replica of the one in Ashes and Blood and with it as provenance came several letters from a magistrate in the Cape Town area in which details are given of the autograph's procurement and its later sale at a London auction house in the 1890s. The original owner has asked the auction house to "get a couple of quid for it" at least as he considered it quite rare with the only other king autograph he knew about going to Lady Florence Dixie. The second one I now retain is also witnessed as procured by Poole and is interesting as the king's signature and Poole's testimony are on the same sliver of blue paper. Obviously tourists and dignitaries visiting the captive king put his autograph in great demand. Poole had the king practice the writing of his autograph in a vertical column (ladder-like) so he could then clip the individual signatures from it quite easily. I have found an article written by a visitor to the king in which the visitor states that he had the king sign a photograph. Now wouldn't that be something!!! Anyone who would like a scan of the king's autograph can email me.