rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:57 am

" This is where we hold them. This is where we fight. This is where they die ! " Leonadis to his men in '300'. Soldiers would follow orders without question, but the leadership qualities and the encouraging speeches by their commanders must also have a strong effect on the already professional fighting-men. Were there any encouraging speeches made by officers to their men during the Zulu War that are known about ?

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:10 am

Yes. Several independent accounts - all more or less concurring - mention Chelmsford addressing his men (mostly 1/24) on the afternoon of 22 January 1879, the response to his brief peroration being a rousing cheer from the men reflecting their determination to march on and to get stuck in - weariness, thirst and hunger notwithstanding.

Peter

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:41 am

Peter

You mean of course 2nd/24th.

As ever

Mike

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:53 pm

Mike

Absolutely!!! And to think I altered it from 2/24 to 1/24 before clicking "submit"!

Thanks

Peter

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:01 pm

Peter

Perhaps you had a better lunch than I did!!

As ever

Mike

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:02 pm

Not even that excuse, as a visit to the dentist put paid to any lunch at all!

On the subject of the original enquiry, I don't suppose Moriarty's famous but (very!) brief exhortation in the pre-dawn mist of 12th March would qualify, despite its "Thermopylaean" theme?

Peter

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:02 pm

Neo: Isandlwana ; 'Fix bayonets and die like British soldiers' (Unattributed).

Peter, - it all becomes clear - it must have been after effects of dental gas!! I hope you have a better lunch tomorrow. What did Moriarty say?
'Damn you Holmes.' Very Happy

As ever

Mike

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:53 pm

Mike,

The contemporary 'At Bay' published quote is 'English' not 'British'.

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:06 pm

How about Mkhosana ka Mvundlana Biyela who, when sent to re-energise the Zulu attack at Isandlwana, is said to have stirred his men from their cover by quoting some lines from the King's praises, "The Little Branch of Leaves that extinguished the great fire kindled by Mantshonga and Ngqelebane gave no such order as this!"? Sad to say, it cost him his life moments later.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:52 pm

And don't forget the hand of the Lord;

from Pvt Owen Ellis to father and family,
Rorke's Drift ;
'We had a sermon on the field this morning.
The 1-24th Regiment, the 2-24th Regiment, the Artillery, the Cape Mounted Police and the Cavalry had formed themselves into a square, with the chaplain, General Thesiger and all the staff officers in the centre,
the drum constituting the pulpit....'

I wonder what the reading and sermon were taken from ?

23rd Psalm, 'The Lord is my Shepherd' would have been very reassuring, as they were about to enter into the valley of death !

"The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want;
He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters; He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness for His name's sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil; for Thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
Thou anointest my head with oil, my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of The Lord for ever."

Sean

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:01 pm

Is there no account of one of these officers making a speech of this sort to the men, when the Zulu impi was on it's way ? Their chances must have seemed slim at best - a time when encouraging words need to be said.

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:13 am

Neo

I don't think there was time. I don't think they even had time to complete the inner biscuit box barricade by the time the impi forces arrived. If it was a choice between getting your defences ready and fortifying the men with a rousing speech, I think I'd go with the biscuit boxes!

Dawn

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:51 am

There is a quote attributed to Henry Pulleine, by 'a gentleman whose testimony may be relied upon' that reads, "Men of the 1-24th, we are here, and here we stand to fight it out to the end."

John Y.

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:17 pm

As this thread seems to have run its course, I hope no-one will mind me responding to Sean's question about the Church Parade held on Sunday 19 January 1879. For those of us who did not serve in the armed forces, the origins of the compulsory Church Parade can be traced back to regulations issued to the Royalist army during the English Civil War:

And that the service of Almighty God be not neglected, it is ordained, that there be a chaplain appointed for every regiment, who shall read prayers orderly, and duly once every day whilst they are in leaguer, and shall preach, or expound some piece of scripture, or catechism once at least on every Sunday, and holy day, in some such convenient place as the colonel of the regiment shall appoint, and by the sound of a trumpet or drum notice shall be given of the time, in such manner as the whole
regiment may take notice thereof (M. Griffin, �The foundation of the Chaplaincy Corps�, Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research lxxx (2002), 290)

When the standing army was created after the Restoration, compulsory attendance at divine worship became the first of the Articles of War:

All Officers and Soldiers (not having just impediment) shall diligently
frequent Divine Service and Sermons, in such places as shall be appointed by the Regiment, Troop or Company wherein they serve. (Ref. TNA: PRO, WO 32/4014)

This practice became enshrined in military regulations and for 300 years British troops, wherever they were stationed, were paraded to attend divine worship.

I believe that this ritual was abolished in 1946. Like Sean, I too wonder which lessons the Padre (wasn't it Smith himself, Peter E?) had read at that service, and indeed what form the service took. Did he go through the order of Mattins as laid out in the Book of Common Prayer, or was there in 1879 a specific Army Service Book with its own lectionary? This is how 312 Pte Owen Ellis describes what happened:

Rorke�s Drift,
C Company 1-24th Regiment,
Zululand,
Cape Colony,
January 19, 1879.

My dear Father,

It is Sunday afternoon, just after dinner, and here am I sitting down on a little box to write these few lines to you on my knee, hoping indeed that they will find you all as hale and hearty as I am myself at present, and thanks be to Almighty God for keeping us as we are.

As you see, I�m not neglecting to write to you: today is the 19th of January, and if I�m not mistaken it�s only been a week, or maybe a fortnight, since I last wrote replying to the one I got from you with the two newspapers. But this time I don�t have either a letter or a paper to reply to. While we're on the subject, my dear Father, I don�t expect I�ll be getting a paper for quite a while; but just so there isn�t any misunderstanding, what I'm trying to say is that I am sending this to let you know that I'll be shifting from this Rorke�s Drift place tomorrow morning (that is, about six o�clock on the morning of the 20th of January), for King Cetshwayo�s �Grand Kraals�, and it should take us about eight or nine days to get there [�]

Well, my dear Father, I don�t have anything much to tell you, but as I had time on my hands I thought I�d put a bit of a letter together as I know you'd like to hear from me as often as possible. This morning, we had a sermon out in the open. The 1/24th Regiment, the 2/24th Regiment, the Artillery, the Cape Mounted Police and the Cavalry, formed up in a square with the Padre, General Thesiger, and all the staff officers in the middle, and a drum for a pulpit. The Service they went through was like the one they do in the Churches, and we have these every Sunday when we are on campaign [�]

P.S.�Address:�No. 312, Private Owen Ellis, C Company, 1/24th Regiment, Pietermaritzburg, Cape Colony, South Africa, or elsewhere.

My dear Father, it might be quite a while after this before I get a chance to write, so don�t fret if you don't get a letter. I will write as soon as possible.�Good afternoon.�O. E.

Ellis's reference to the Service being 'like the one they do in the Churches' may suggest some adapted form of Mattins, but he may not himself have been an Anglican, and perhaps not known the difference. If I'm not mistaken, the Lectionary of the Book of Common Prayer had been revised in 1871. Now, if the Padre chose to use the readings which were prescribed for the Mattins of Sunday 19 January, 1879, then the Gospel Reading which the 24th would have heard on the field that day was taken from Matthew 11, and included the following:

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Regards,

Paul

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:33 am

Peter E:

... the response to [Chelmsford's] brief peroration being a rousing cheer from the men reflecting their determination to march on and to get stuck in

For what it's worth, according to 1259 Pte Charles Lewis of the 2/24th, in an undated letter to his parents published in Y Gwladgarwr on 4 April '79, the men actually responded to Chelmsford's speech with three cheers �

We gave three cheers, got up with a good heart, and returned to the camp ...

By the way, where can I find the most accurate account of what Chelmsford actually said to the troops prior to retaking the camp? Is it Symons?

Regards,

Paul