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Mel


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 345
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I once asked my daughter's Headteacher (I believe he is now called Headlearner!!) why the school didn't teach History any more and he replied that the pupils had more important subjects to learn such as I.T. and Business Studies. I had to stop myself from asking if that was the reason why the school, apparently, also didn't teach the three R's any more.

Peter, if used selectively (and I underline the word selectively) I feel that TV can become a window to the world. There is a wealth of historical, scientific, geograpical and factual programmes available via Satellite or Cable that can, in many ways, balance the currect lack of learning in our schools.
Mike should certainly watch more as he doesn't know that the Battle of Hastings was in 1776. Smile

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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Mel, you're joking, right??

Dawn
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William Seymour


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 79
Location: Kent, UK
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Peter
I think your history teacher was probably using a book called " A picture History for boys and girls" by Richard Wilson. It starts with the Druids and ends with 'New Inventions'. My copy is circa 1963 and you are welcome to borrow it to bring back happy memories! Very Happy
JK
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Hi John

I'll be right round! It could well be the one, although unless it is a 2nd edition it may not be the same, as I was in that class in 1958/59!!!

Back in the early '90s, Lynne & I hosted the annual Black Pig Bat & Trap team end-of-season "bash" here at our place, and it was decided that fancy dress would be the order of the day. As the 21st October was the agreed date, I said: "Well, that's settled then, a Trafalgar Day party." Blank looks all round, I'm afraid. At first I thought everyone was feigning ignorance and can still recall my disbelief and disillusion.

By the way, I'll get back to you shortly on those WW1 casualty details!

Rich

So there's yet another English game for you to become familiar with (Bat & Trap) although it is virtually unknown outside Kent.

Dawn

I'm sure Mel's not joking. A work colleague once said to me (early 1990s) that if I asked a group of staff standing by the photocopier when the Battle of Hastings was (or it may have been what happened in 1066, I can't remember which way round) they wouldn't know the answer. I replied that that was an absolute impossibility and couldn't think why he would believe it so, even though we had been lamenting generally the alarming lack of knowledge among the (only slightly younger than us) British of their own history. As you will know, Dawn, there simply isn't a more basic factual historic "date/event" in our long history. I had a bet with my mate, went over and asked the question - and completely lost my bet.

I'll tell you something else - it would not remotely surprise me to learn that our cousins in the Antipodes or southern Africa have a superior grasp of our general history than the average levels seen in under middle-age Britons. Earlier this year I had the great privilege of working with Henry Olonga for a day, and it quickly became abundantly clear to me that he and our mutual connection, his former Zim schoolmate, will have forgotten more about British history and culture than the group of young English people we were working with will ever dream of knowing.

A similar phenomenon occurred in the '50s, when many West Indians arrived in Britain and were shocked to discover that their own knowledge of British history and culture was far superior to that of the indigenous population here.

Peter
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Alan
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1530
Location: Wales
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There is also the recent poll of school children asking 'who is Churchill'. Most said it was a dog with a nodding head in the back of a car. Ohhh yes!

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Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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I recall my university history tutor once suggesting that history should not be taught in to anyone under eighteen! I think perhaps that suggestion has been adopted - in spades.

KIS
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Mel


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 345
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Dawn,
Right. Laughing


Peter,
How dare you! Laughing
(BTW, I'm probably older than you.!)

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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Mel

I had assumed that Dawn was asking incredulously if you were really joking about history not being taught, rather than your (even obvious to me!) joke about 1776. But I see on re-reading it that she may have been picking up on your joke.

All in all though, it's no joke, is it?

Peter

P.S. 1950!
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Mel


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 345
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Peter,
Absolutely!


P.S. 1949! Are you questioning my right to command?

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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Oh, not your right, old boy ... Laughing

P.
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Peter, yes it was the date rather the comment I was picking up on. Having just attended a lecture on the English resistance to the Norman Invasion of 1066 (there's got to be a book in there somewhere!), it was all very fresh in my mind. However, 1066 was one of the first historical events I remember being taught in primary school, and the first one that piqued my interest in history.

I studied history in SA in High School, and I think you may be right about us learning more about English history there that the English did. Half the year was taken up with European history and the other half South African, so we got a good mix. I remember most of the exam questions were on either WWI Or WWII.

Dawn
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Damian O'Connor


Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Essex, UK
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Imperial History - including Nelson, Wellington, Zulus, Xhosa, Boers Gladstone, Disraeli - is alive and well and living in Gosfield School, Essex! Last week Yr9 refought Trafalgar and Waterloo and in the summer Yr12 will be off to Rorke's Drift. I agree that there is too much emphasis on "Hitler and the Henrys" and this is where my 19th Century trained A Level students gain when they apply to University; you can almost hear the audible sigh of relief from admissions tutors when they come across someone who knows where India and South Africa are.
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Rich
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and 1066...what a year....hmmmm...maybe if old Harold stayed around Stamford Bridge for a round of shuteye with his men rather than greeting William when he did English history would have arguably seen a bunch of different days... Wink
Michael Boyle


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 595
Location: Bucks County,PA,US
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I must say that I'm surprised at the apparent lack of national history in UK pre-uni education as compared to the equivalent in the US. Perhaps it's due to the logistical challenge of condensing 2100+ years of (Roman recorded) history into 12 years (175 years of history per one school year) as opposed to @500 years of (European) history here (42 years of history per one school year). Given less than an hour per day for a history class, which must also include classical and aboriginal history, the prospect would appear daunting.

That is of course pre-supposing a "history" class. Immediately prior to my entering high school the previous classes of 'history', 'geography' and 'civics' [ a sort of 'how-to' on the workings, rights and responsibilities of citizens in a representational democracy] were wrapped up into an all-inclusive "social studies" curriculum further limiting any real historical focus. [There was also this weird thing termed 'New Math']. However, due to the influence of relatives, friends' relatives, the odd inspired teacher and the even odder neibourhood old curmudgeon [not to mention Hollywood!] many of us managed to foster a life-long interest in how the heck we ended up here.

To me the teaching of history (as well as literature) cannot be all-inclusive in primary education given the time constraints. The best case scenario would be to engross the students sufficiently to encourage them to investigate further on their own time. (Daunting indeed!)

One must also factor in the the reason for primary education - to prepare children to make their own way in the world. As one who can't claim command based on seniority (High School class of '69) [a staff position perhaps?] I am none the less cognizant that the world is a very different place in this age of free market capitalism. Where once economic realities required only that children fuel the manual labour force children must now fuel the technical labour force, a much more learning intensive prospect.

If we wish to foster a more thorough understanding of history among our progeny we can't rely on the schools. We can only rely upon ourselves. One need not publish, simply engaging in conversation (of a non-bemoaning nature!) can go a long way.

Of course publishing doesn't hurt.

Nor does a gripping film yarn as long as it's not left there!

Best

Michael
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Rich
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You know I've been thinking. Today, (I'll speak to what I see here not in Europe or Asia since I'm really not up on their educational ways), students appear to go into specilaized areas when they take up a university education. Why? Simple, if you're spending upwards from $35,000+ on a university education you're going to make sure you do it as an investment. So then the curricula would be computers, pre-med or pre-law. The study of history, of course , just can't figure in payback. Michael, I'm afraid you're right. Anybody interested in the subject has to do it alone.
Little Big Horn & Isandlwana
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