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Rich
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Sapper..would be nice if Mr.Scott would do it..yes!..though I hear he's supposedly big on the Peninsular War so he'd probably like to focus on the Duke before Chard, Chelsmord or Durnford I'd guess when it comes to movie-making but hey who knows?..maybe if the price is right and he feels his constitution can deal with the Snooks, Youngs, Halls, Smiths, Everetts,Ewarts etc etc etc who will be lurking and circling the wagons.....
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Coll
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Instead, go for the person that made the most recent Alamo film.
If he went to such lengths to recreate the early dawn attack on the mission, and was given the same support for an AZW film, he may pay attention to details as the 'real' mountain, uniforms, weapons, etc. 
Perhaps including the eclipse ! 
Look to the film mentioned above for guidance. I don't know if it failed at the box office, due to too much attention-to-detail, but if we could get the same quality of film-making for an Isandlwana or Rorke's Drift film, I wouldn't care if it failed at the box office, if it is exactly what we (historians/enthusiasts) really wanted. 
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Mel
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What's been achieved if the film is a box office failure?
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_________________ Mel
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Coll
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Mel
You're missing the point. No film is a guaranteed success. As an epic or as a blockbuster. If you are looking for such, when word comes of a new AZW film, there is a good chance you will be sorely disappointed. What I'm saying is this. I'd like it to be fantastic, but just because the masses don't like it, doesn't mean it'll be a bad film. It could be due to the fact, it is not what audiences want now. Unfortunately, if cinema goers don't like it, it will be termed a flop, which it may not be to us, being AZW enthusiasts, who are looking for something more than the big screen rubbish we're getting now to appeal to the wider population. If someone is giving us what we want of an Isandlwana or Rorke's Drift film, does it really matter what those who are not involved in this subject think ? Yes. I'd like it to appeal to all. So much so that we have thousands more joining the AZW community. But if not, well.... If we're happy with it, what's the diff ? Does it bother you that maybe many don't like 'Zulu' ? We can't make everyone like what we like. You'd need to watch any new AZW films with an open mind, as there is a great deal that can go wrong (or right) for modern interpretations. Be optimistic ? Yes. But then you might be disappointed. 
Be pessimistic ? Yes. Because then you might be extremely pleased.
Box office flop ? So what. It's what we have been looking for and talking about for decades. Well, me anyway. I'm not saying make a flop intentionally. I'm saying it might be one, and it'll be nobody's fault. If I like it, that'll do me. Or should we keep on talking about new films for decades to come, but be content with absolutely none being made, in case they're not up to scratch ? Coll |
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diagralex
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Coll
Surely the bottom line to this thread is INVESTMENT. The backers of any film do not want to invest money in a project which may be pleasing to us Zulu buffs but lacks the box office appeal to the many. As much as we would like to see such a venture, backers would like to see a huge success and a great return for them. When you see some of the poor films which have been popular with the general public, you wonder how and why? Has anyone thought of Intombi drift as a subject. That's got it all - the big fight, the officer who ran away, the gallant band of survivors withdrawing slowly to safety and the court martial to finish with. It would not take a cast of thousands either to make! Just a thought. Graham |
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Sapper Mason
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Mel , how can you call something a " failure " when it has not even happened !!! , unless the film ( s ) were made and put out to " Joe Public " we will never know surely ? . Investors , money , inclination and subject matter are but a few pointers to the success or failure of such a project . I am sure i read in the recent past the FRENCH were going to make a film about the Prince IMPERIAL but this came to nothing , on this very forum we learn John Young has already a script in the wings but lost heart perhaps when all the points he made out as to the non adoption of his script made him leave the project and get on with his life as he put it . That as i see it would have made a cracking film about the end of the Napoleons , i hope John still has that script , just in case . Many other chapters of the Zulu War have been mentioned as possible film material so the list is almost endless . JK Rowling never gave up and stuck to her beliefs and look where she is today ! . As they said in that film " Galaxy Quest " , " NEVER GIVE UP , NEVER GIVE IN " , i like that film mainly because Sigourney Weaver looks a corker as a blond but i diverse ! . If they can " churn " out a film with the title " The Assasination Of Jesse James by the Coward Bob Ford " then any film or films with content of the Zulu War has my vote , instead of " knocking " such ideas how about looking at ways this project could get off the ground despite all the barriers in the way , why let a little matter of MONEY get in the way ? , how many authors have been knocked down before getting a book published , it`s not how many times you get knocked down Mel but how many times you get up ! . Look at the boxer Chuck Wepner as inspiration , he fought Muhammad Ali , even managed to floor the great man and lost the fight , it was that fight which gave rise to the vastly popular " Rocky " films , how many ? , six i think ? . Have a little more faith Mel and who knows what can be achieved ? , you have my thoughts on a possible series of film regarding the Zulu War but as this forum has proved there are many other ideas floating around in the ether as well . We have a collective interest in the Zulu War and are not ramblers or bird -watchers but to coin a word of mine , " Zuluologists " . We may yet find someone who would produce a film ( s ) c " 1879 " , there is nothing wrong with a little faith in positive thinking , " Sapper "  |
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Coll
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Graham
Investment. Yes. However, I don't think film-makers can be sure any film will be a success, but they have to sell the idea to backers, to 'give it a go'. Prime example. Last night I saw part of an interview with Tom Hanks, whom we know has been in several successful movies, who has just made a film with Julia Roberts. In the interview he was asked directly , did he think it would be successful. His answer " I don't know " and continued the answer with more-or-less saying he has been in the business too long to wonder if a film will be good or not. I've heard on many occassions, actors and film directors saying that while they are making a film, they can't tell if it will be successful. Others say they knew they had something special, but I wonder if this was said later, when their films were praised. You really need to have the concept, write it (as best you can), fund it, film it, and hope it is indeed something special. Isandlwana, due to its scale, and heroism portrayed, would be an excellent choice for a first AZW movie, which would hopefully get people 'hooked', and looking for a possible sequel. I do see it happening some time soon. (still means years though )
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Mel
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Sapper,
Before you decide to add "rolling eyes" to your response to my post, could you please read the posts carefully? I wasn't saying that any remake must be a failure but was replying to Coll's remark that he didn't care if the film failed at the box office. Again, if you read all my posts carefully, you will see that I am very positive about a remake and indeed, welcome a new film. I differ from you inasmuch as I don't want to see any remake just to go through it frame by frame to analyse details such as accurate uniforms or short actors. I am on no quest to defend Zulu. I'm not bothered if there are people who don't like it. I sometimes question why I can still dip into it after so many years even though I have tramped the battlefields and have an extensive collection of Zulu (some quite accurate) documentaries and books. I have merely tried (and failed) to stimulate a conversation to identify what makes your (and mine) No. 1 film have such a great appeal and also identify if that appeal could, in some way, be incorporated in a new screen play. |
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_________________ Mel
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Sheldon Hall
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I'm not sure what point Sapper was making in his passing reference to "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford". The title is partly ironic: the film is about Ford, not James, and aims to dramatise the underlying motives of the "coward", which are more complicated than his reputation suggests. I don't know whether or not it's historically accurate, but it's damn good drama!
Unfortunately it was a box-office flop in the States, which of course says nothing about the quality of the film itself but will make it difficult in future for other similar films to get off the ground. Hence the problem of getting a new film on, say, Isandlwana made today. Can you imagine John Lee Hancock, writer/director of the almost equally unsuccessful "Alamo" remake, pitching an idea to prospective financiers along the lines of the following: "Well, I know my last film about a 19th century battle was a flop, and the next one might be too, but don't worry if you lose your shirts on it: at least a bunch of guys in England will have the film they've always wanted to see. Oh, didn't I mention that this film is about British soldiers, not Americans? British imperialists, yes. Colonial invaders. What do you mean, the Black audience won't go for it? They won the battle didn't they? Oh, didn't I mention that the Brits were all massacred? Well, most of them. No, there's no love interest, but this isn't really a film for women, is it? And so what if kids today aren't interested in history - I am and so are all my friends! Hello? Hello?? Funny, the line's gone dead..." |
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Coll
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Sheldon
Bad hangover ?
I'm interested. What if a new film was made about Isandlwana and/or Rorke's Drift, wouldn't you be keen to see it ? Would you consider writing a second book, 'comparative film history', the making of the old, then the new ? What if it was made the same way as 'The Alamo'(modern) and was a huge success ?
What would you say then ? I'm just curious. Coll |
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Rich
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Yes sir you've got to watch out for all that "authenticity" and "accuracy" stuff when it comes to movies! That recent remake of the Alamo did it by the book as far as getting things down right but in the end, a big fat dud.
So much for authenticity. But people loved Wayne's fable back in '60! If you ask me a RD or Isandhlwana movie will most likely have to be done like the first Alamo, bankrolled by one guy who's the producer or director. (Wayne financed that '60 production). In today's tough climate of making and financing movies they have to reduce downside risk as best as they can. It's going to be tough to ask movie producers to plunk down a few million for a portrayal of back-water 19th century battles. Gone are the days of lax fiscal watchfulness when it comes to film. Things just cost too much nowadays to fulfill people's film fantasies! You know maybe one tack would be to do some unique promotion of the subject matter in such a way that movie moguls would really HAVE to do it based on what they now call "buzz". Get "buzz" among the movie-goers and the bees start buzzing! When the moguls hear the buzz they might see honey!...... ...Look to me like budding AZW screenplay writers and producers have to be promotion mavens and salesmen first and foremost before they can see the fruits of their work on the screen! |
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Coll
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Rich
I don't know. Look at 'Saving Private Ryan', 'Black Hawk Down' and 'The Thin Red Line', they did okay, even with the amount of accuracy in them. Would they have had the same drama or appeal, had they been made like the old(er) movies. 'Gladiator', compared to 'Spartacus' which was the best action-wise ? Coll |
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Sapper Mason
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The use of emoticons is something just to add a little to a reply or message , the use of a rolling eyes one in a previous mail was not a slight against any individuaL ( s ) and never will be from this contributor . If any offence taken then i am sorry .
We can point to any film and comment on its merits and failings , as was pointed out the Jesse James film flopped in the States ( i wonder why ? ). A film has to be made first before we judge it i would have thought ! . It was the title of the Jesse James film which was the reason behind my making a point of it , heaven above , if that was the chosen one , which ones went into the bin !!! .
A lot of films have been mentioned as to content , accuracy and story line . In the film ( s ) i mention and have given a title , " 1879 " it is all speculation at this time as i see it . Many valid points have been put as to accuracy , content and a damn good story line to make such a ( possible ) film ( s ) a box - office hit or rank failure . I think the Zulu war is an area where film makers could look at with a new eye and if such a project got off the ground a BALANCED FILM ( S ) which gets as close to 100% for all of us is something i feel strong about . I have NO personal axe to grind with anyone on this issue and welcome ALL comments if at the end of the day we DO get a film or films which not only tells a story , is pretty factual but is gripping as well as entertaining , is that too much to ask for in 2008 ? , " Sapper " |
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Sheldon Hall
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Coll,
Ferpectly sober, thanks! Of course I'd be interested in seeing some new films about the Anglo-Zulu War (if they were any good), but my point was the near-impossibility of one getting financed in view of the poor financial record of recent historical dramas (and indeed of "Zulu Dawn"). The war films you mention were successful for reasons quite apart from historical accuracy, I think (e.g., action + emotion + special effects + big stars). Mind you, Ian Knight has just passed on to me a rumour about a "Zulu" remake involving Russell Crowe (I'll believe it when I see it...) - and "Spartacus" wins the contest with "Gladiator" any day of the week. Sapper, You're right: I think the title of "The Assassination of Jesse James (etc)" had a lot to do with its b.o. failure (and indeed the reported reluctance of the studio involved even to release it). It was produced by its star, Brad Pitt, who was no doubt instrumental in getting it made, like John Wayne was with "The Alamo" and Kirk Douglas with "Spartacus". The facts that it runs nearly three hours and is very slow and lacking in action probably didn't help either. But don't miss seeing it on the big screen if you get the chance! Incidentally, although Wayne put some money into his "Alamo" project, he did not finance the whole $12 million budget personally (a vast amount in 1960). It came partly from private investors and partly from the distributor, United Artists. When the film performed less well than anticipated, Wayne sold his financial interest in it to UA. A new book on the making of the film is shortly to be published: check out the "Cinema Retro" website at www.cinemaretro.com for details. |
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Coll
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Sapper
Exactly what you say - 'A film has to be made first before we judge it.' Coll |
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