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Australians
Sapper Mason


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 333
Location: ANGLESEY
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Very Happy ,
Greetings Forum , a quick one this time , i have been asked were there any Australians that took part in the Zulu War of 1879 ??? , quite a broad question i agree but can anyone put meat on the bones of this one ? , cheers ! , " Sapper " . Wink
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
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Sapper

How about Rupert Lonsdale, who escaped narrowly from the sacked camp at Isandlwana, having wandered into it inadvertently before the Zulus had left. Wasn't he an Aussie?

Peter
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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I know one New Zealander.

"The first New Zealand born recipient was Captain Henry Cecil Dudgeon D’Arcy (born at Wanganui on 11 August 1850), who was awarded the VC in 1879 for an act of gallantry while serving with the British Army during the Zulu Wars."

(Not sure if his was one of those taken in the recent heist Sad )

Dawn
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 954
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Graham,

Lieutenant Edgar Oliphant Anstey, 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment, was born at Highercombe, South Australia.

Lonsdale, as Peter mentioned, was born in Melbourne.

John Y.
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Thanks .
Sapper Mason


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 333
Location: ANGLESEY
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Smile ,
Thank you all for informing me of the few Australians and even one New Zealander who participated in the Zulu War , if anymore " surface" i am sure you will let me know , thanks one & all , " Sapper " Wink
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 781
Location: Brecon
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There is also

Colonel Baker Creed Russell - born NSW, Australia

3169 Cpl Robert Miller AHC, RD defender, born Wellington NZ

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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 781
Location: Brecon
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Canadians:

25B/646 Pte Edward Munn 1/24th - Newfoundland
Capt Wardell 1/24th - Toronto
Commandant JG Dartnell - London, Ontario

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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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ROWLAND HERBERT MILLER
Sapper Mason


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 333
Location: ANGLESEY
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Smile ,
Dear Martin , Thank you for that , i was aware of Rowland Herbert Miller AHC who was born of English parents in Wellington New Zealand , i have been in touch with his descendants and recently discovered his death details . I have pictures of his son and second wife etc , i think my questionaire was asking if there were any AUSTRALIANS of Australian parentage in the Zulu war . I accept the names given as being born in either New Zealand or Australia and of course Rowland Herber Miller had the tragedy of two of his brothers committing suicide , and his parents being murdered by one of his brothers ! . Herbert himself was assesed for mental frailties at one time . Thank you once again , " Sapper " Wink
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 954
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Graham,

I don't have a copy of the book but it might provide some leads and answers Ron Austin's Australian Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Zulu and Boer Wars.

John Y.
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In Thanks .
Sapper Mason


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 333
Location: ANGLESEY
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Smile ,
Dear Forum , Many thanks for the referals to the either Australian or New Zealand born participants engaged in the Zulu War , in the case of Rowland Herbert Miller his was a tragic story to say the least , when he was serving his brother had committed suicide and then in 1879 / 1880 he learnt that another brother had killed his parents and then killed himself , all on the same day ! , can you imagine what he felt when he heard this ? .

My thanks to John Young for the book reference , i will try and access this to read , thanks to all once again , " Sapper " .

Again thank you to John Young for a lesson in RE history , it has been 30 years or so since i left the Corps and had forgotten in truth the origins of the word SAPPER , the term now used for all members of the Royal Engineers . I can now go to my maker and tell him that i have actually handled the very pistol used by Chard at Rorke's Drift , what a privilege to have done that , hopefully i will be in Chatham again to attend the Zulu War weekend ( May 31 st / June 1st 2008 ) Embarassed
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Michael Boyle


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 595
Location: Bucks County,PA,US
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Sapper,

Found these -

Royston, John Robinson (1860 - 1942) (only because he recruited the Natal Light Horse, which was predominately Australian) -

http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A110481b.htm

James Page (1861 - 1921), although it doesn't specifically say he was born in Oz he is credited with being the youngest future MP to serve in the military. He enlisted in the RA at age 16 as a boy gunner. -

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rb/2006-07/07rb10.htm#youngest

Unless it was possible to enlist in the RA from Australia that may be a long shot.

Though non-specific, from an article in "The English Illustrated Magazine", 1888-1889, entitled "Bill Beresford and His Victoria Cross" by Archie Forbes (on Buller's Horse) -

...Almost every European nationality was represented ; there were a few Americans, some good, some bad ; a Greaser ; a Chilian ; several Australians ; and a couple of Canadian Voyageurs from somewhere in the Arctic regions...

Bit of a tall order to try and sort through the surviving lists of the many different mounted components though.

Best

Michael
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Thanks
Sapper Mason


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 333
Location: ANGLESEY
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Very Happy ,
It never fails to amaze me just what knowledge there is out there and on this Forum , many thanks to Michael Boyle for his latest offering , " Sapper " Wink
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 954
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Michael,

Odd how in a few years, and maybe because by then he was writing in American publications, Forbes mellowed to the Americans. In Pearson's Magazine of 1896 in an article entitled The Bravest Deed I Ever Saw. How Lord William Beresford Won the V.C. he then wrote ...and there were men from the United States...

Another possible answer for this change of text could have been the fact of Ulundi Bill's marriage to an American in 1895, and Forbes chose the more subtle approach.

John Y.
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Michael Boyle


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 595
Location: Bucks County,PA,US
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John

Yes, It does appear odd. As late as 1891, in his "Barracks, Bivouacs, and Battles" he seems to have reprinted his "Bill Beresford" in it's entirety. Then as you point out in 1896 he re-writes it a bit and also drops the "Bill" in favour of "Lord William". Perhaps the American wife affected that as well!

I'm having a bit of trouble 'pegging' ol' Archie on some of his positions. He wrote an article for the Aug. 1882 "North American Review" entitled "The United States Army" which is both a recounting of his his travels in the US and a comparison of the US Army to the British Army that is equally amusing, informative and very perceptive. That together with his "Souvenirs of Some Continents" published in 1885. which contains three articles ; "MacGahan, The American War Correspondent", "The American Gentleman With the Moist Eye", and "Some Society Aspects of America" which seem to reveal some amount of affection for Americans even then.

A seemingly complex man who was very much a product of the Victorian era, having been born one year into the Queen's reign and expiring one year before it's end.

[Being the most decorated civilian of his time he did of course have his own agenda, and the refusal of his Zulu War medal seems to have flavoured his opinion of Lord Chelmsford!]

Best

Michael
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Australians
Edward


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Glendora, California
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Perhaps a bit of s side note to this conversation but the ranks of U.S. Army at this same time was filled with men from just about every country in Europe. The world and its wars seem a bit more cosmopolitan that one might normally think.

“French Foreign Legion could not outdo this American army in variety of nationalities. Besides native Americans, it was full of Irish, Germans, French, British, Scandinavians, Italians, Russians and others. The waves of immigration from Europe in the 60s and 70s washed a number of of ex-professional soldiers and products of European conscription into the Western Army, and by and large they made first class soldiers. Myles Keogh, captain and commander of I company of the 7th, was a typical example; he was an Irish soldier of fortune; had a craving for drink that kept him constantly in debt, had served in at the Papal Zouaves and seen action in Africa and the Civil War. Trumpeter Geovanni Martini, the last man to see Custer alive, had served as a boy with Garibaldi before he emigrated from Italy and joined the U.S. Army as John Martin. Good, bad; drunk, sober; hero or coward; they all donned the blue woollen uniform and rode west to fight the only true Americans on the continent.”

(The South African Military History Society, Military History Journal - Vol 3 No 1
George Armstrong Custer and THE BATTLE OF THE LITTLE BIG HORN
by R. MURCHISON
The subject of a talk given to the S.A. Military History Society by Mr R. Murchison in November, 1973.)

Also 1st Lt. Charles Camillus DeRudio who rode with Custer at Little Big Horn was in fact Carlo Camillo Di Rudio an Italian Count.

I have also read - and will endeavor to find the original source that mentioned- at least one Australian being in the ranks of the 7th Cavalry during the Little Big Horn campaign.


Ed

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