![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
![Reply to topic](templates/Morpheus/images/lang_english/blue/reply.gif) |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
Galloglas
Guest
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:18 am |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/posttop_left.gif) |
![Reply with quote Reply with quote](templates/Morpheus/images/lang_english/blue/icon_quote.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
Further up the chain, this does rather seem to have got a bit steamy. Though modern formally expressed policies on the wearing of medals have evolved from those of the past, they are primarily intended to address the regulation of the serving military.
Civilian practice is ostensibly expected to follow the military principles, most of those wearing medals having served, but there are nowadays many 'popular' practices that diverge significantly from the older conventions, and would have been frowned upon very much by the more conventional pre-WW2 serving soldier.
If we return to some things already addressed:
- It is still the convention that medals belonging to another person awarded them (if worn) should be worn on the right breast and properly mounted within the customs that would have applied to the original recipient. This principle does not apply to the serving military, in uniform, who should only wear their own medals. The purpose of this practice is to make it absolutely clear that the wearer is not indicating their own entitlement to the medals of others. The wearer might also need to wear their own medals in the correct way at the same time. Here, it is the actual medals that were worn by another that should be worn. THese have often been passed to the requested wearer by somebody unable to be present themselves, by incapacity or death. It would not be consistent with this very dignified custom for people just to assume they can make up a set of replica medals as if that fell within the same custom through some more remote degree of kinship, or as a personal choice.
- It is not unusual for those living recipients holding the VC to safeguard the actual medal as a separate keepsake whilst wearing a replica mounted with their other medals. Very regrattably, this necessary precaution has to be taken as a counter to possible theft.
- Re-enactors, and re-enactors who are also in some relationship by descent from original recipients, need to take special care that they are not in conflict with more fundamental convention. For example, and I do not personalise my remarks here, that a family member was once awarded a VC would not of itself create a justification for wearing a replica of one or of the other medals earned subsequently. Bequeathed medals, are in a different category, and might well be worn in this way on recognisably appropriate circumstances. Similaerly, if the purpose is faithful re-enactment of events, then it begs the question of whether the medal (or replica) could or would have been worn by the recipent in the situation actually being re-enacted. It's also not very faithful re-enactment to appear wearing a medal in symbolism of a person, if the person himself was not ever present at that place wearing it. There can be exceptions when the context is making it obvious that there is a stronger degree of simulation. So, if the presentation of the medal is being re-enacted, or in like circumstances, then perhaps, but probably not otherwise. Wearing of medals for theatrical (or film) purposes is in another category, since there is no real supposition that the person wearing them for dramatic effect is connected to the military or the individual recipient. It would serve re-nactors well to be very scrupulous in this regard, and the best of them always are.
And, finally, the impression is created by the appearance of something and its context and evident or asumed purpose. The award of a VC to a distant relative is possibly not of itself a justification for the continued or occasional wearing of one - real or replica. Better not to, I suggest, lest it might be thought that some form of indirect credit (and recognition) might be being sought. Purity of motive is not always manifested by the visible.
My intention here is not to offend, but I do wish that those re-enactors (or people who like dfressing up) and who stray of good principle and orthodoxy would take more care in these matters. As Burns said:
"Wad the pow'r the giftie gie us, to see ourselves as others see us"
G
|
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/ftr_right.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/ftr_right.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
Peter Ewart
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 |
Posts: 1797 |
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England. |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:03 pm |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/posttop_left.gif) |
![Reply with quote Reply with quote](templates/Morpheus/images/lang_english/blue/icon_quote.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
G
A very clear explanation, sensitively and fairly put. Thanks - and also for the up-to-date position (from QRs?).
Saw - I think the Medal of Honor regulations you have described have much to commend them. Firstly, because they are crystal clear and allow for no ambiguity. Secondly, because there is a positive attempt to demonstrate that the rules are strict specifically to promote or support the uniqueness and prestige of the award.
I suspect - like most "rules & regs" this side of the pond - our present position has developed gradually by custom & convention, periodically ratified or clarifed by KRs/QRs, WO/MoD decrees etc., etc. As a lifelong civvy with no personal experience of these things but a very close interest, I'd consider a tightening up of the VC (at the very least) regulations to be in everyone's interest. For what it's worth, I'd allow widows* only to wear a VC, if that. No duplicates/replicas to be worn, other than by the recipient. Campaign medals or other awards to be worn only by the recipient's immediate family - siblings; own children - in agreed, limited circumstances at appropriate, official occasions only. But I'd agree that there is a good case for insisting that a VC or duplicate should only ever be worn by the recipient himself.*
Peter
* or widowers
* or herself
(The day will come, I suppose).
|
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/ftr_right.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/ftr_right.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
Colin Fielding
Joined: 01 Sep 2005 |
Posts: 126 |
Location: Billericay, Essex |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:25 am |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/posttop_left.gif) |
![Reply with quote Reply with quote](templates/Morpheus/images/lang_english/blue/icon_quote.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
Obviously the wearing of medals not earned by myself has caused negative debate and that was never the intended target. Easy way out of this for me for the future is to keep what I have to myself. So that's one less redcoat on the scene for the general public to continue or initiate an interest in these epic battles. I am just a very proud descendant, not a re-enactor, I take my hat (pith helmet ) off to those who do know enough detail about life in Victoria's Army to put on an accurate display.I'm just trying to add what I can. No one at any event that I have ever attended in uniform has even thought about questioning any right to wear replica medals. I come home hoarse after most events having spent two/three days chatting with the general public in positive and hopefully, informative ,
discussion. It's not my red tunic either , nor the trousers, or the boots but it seems OK to wear them so where is the line drawn? Damned if I know, but anyway, that's immaterial as they will be staying in the wardrobe now.
Good luck to those who continue. Regards and ta ta , Col.
|
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/ftr_right.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/ftr_right.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | Directions to Pte Savage grave. | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | Its that man again! | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
John Young
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 |
Posts: 1020 |
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:09 am |
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/posttop_left.gif) |
![Reply with quote Reply with quote](templates/Morpheus/images/lang_english/blue/icon_quote.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |
Saint Margaret's Church, Westminster last night hosted a Help for Heroes event, when Rob Caskie of Fugitives' Drift Lodge gave a lecture on Rorke's Drift. There was I in my own little world admiring the surroundings when a hand reached over from the pew behind me and tapped me on the shoulder, when I turned around I discovered the ubiquitous Colin Fielding!
Rob played to a packed house, and certainly managed to enthral the Dean of Westminster, John Hall, as I discovered afterwards in a discussion with the Dean. To Rob and all those involved in organising the event well done for raising funds for such a worthy cause!
To the rest of you, where were you? I'll accept no excuses!
You still have a chance to redeem yourselves by attending Rob's concluding talks at:
Tuesday 28th June 2011, Brecon Cathedral, Brecon
Thursday 30th June 2011, @Bristol (That's the name of the venue), Bristol
Friday 1st July 2011, Caerhays Castle, Mevagissey
Times vary according to venue, see website for more detail: www.h4hzuluwartalks.co.uk
John Y.
|
|
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/ftr_right.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | Re: Directions to Pte Savage grave. | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | pte. savage location | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | Re: pte. savage location | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
All times are GMT
Page 2 of 3
|
|
|
| ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/spacer.gif) |