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Steven Sass
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:52 am |
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Hello all,
Please forgive me if this question has been presented before. If I am not mistaken the general consensus is that there is no surviving picture of Corporal Scheiss. In Lady Butler's 1880 painting "The Defence of Rorke's Drift, as commissioned by Queen Victoria, I am assuming the fellow in irregular dress, who is at the mealie bag wall and is turned, cupping his hand in an attempt to yell something possibly to Chard or Bromhead is Corporal Scheiss.
I remember reading an article (but I am unable to cite it at the moment) suggesting whilst Alphonse De Neuville was in the process of painting his version of the "Defense of Rorke's Drift," he may have used some of the actual defenders as models. Whether or not the De Neuville story is true the point is he had some source from which to base his depiction of the participants on. Would it be possible that Lady Butler may have had a picture of Corporal Schiess, (or at least a detailed description, possibly given and evaluated by someone who was there) and therefore his representation in her painting is a close delineation of his actual appearance?
Thanks to all and best wishes,
Steven
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John Young
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:33 am |
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Steven,
It is my understanding that Schiess is depicted as the figure to the right of Bromhead, on the mealie sacks rifle raised in the act of bayoneting downwards towards an unseen foe.
As the figure is seen from behind, his face not shown, so I imagine Lady Elizabeth, like us had no idea as to what Schiess looked like.
The figure with the cupped hand, I have seen described either as Daniells the ferryman, or Dalton, personally I'd opt for the latter, the face appears to have been copied from the image of Dalton which appeared in the ILN. Personally, I disagree with one author who concluded that Dalton was figure semi-prone, propped up against the mealie sacks, who appears to wearing a R.A. uniform.
John Y.
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John Young
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:48 pm |
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Peter,
I'm now at home and able to check the text that you referred to.
The authors have been misled by an article that appeared in Tradition Magazine that was penned by Christopher Wilkinson-Latham, which they acknowledge in the note on page 80. Look carefully at Christopher's quoted text, it is not without error, in one short paragraph I count no less than five errors. If he is at fault over acknowledged and recognised facts, I personally place little store in his description of the painting either.
The figure that is stated to be Dalton, is in fact Louis Byrne. As we know from recorded interviews, Louis Byrne was shot dead, with a bullet to the head whilst giving water to the wounded Corporal Carl Scammell of the N.N.C. Lady Butler depicts Surgeon Reynolds attending to Scammell, whilst Scammell raises a cup or a mug to his lips with his left hand, still held in the left hand of the mortally wounded Byrne.
Scammell is depicted in the same uniform as the man who I identified to Steven as Schiess, obviously a fellow member of the N.N.C., who when examined under a magnifying glass his hat pushed (or could that be blown) backwards. Wasn't Schiess' hat hit by a Zulu rifleman, causing Schiess to take some positive action to deal with the rifleman, and two of his companions?
John Y.
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John Young
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:11 pm |
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Clive,
I have checked my source documents on this now, this all stems from Canon Lummis' Padre Smith... in which on pages 50-51 he produces an image and states that it was taken before the action at Rorke's Drift.
Because of Lummis' work, This England cropped the image of the supposed Schiess and reproduced it in their Register of the Victoria Cross. David Harvey had a sketch worked-up from that image depicting a man in a foreign-service helmet, and again identified the image as Schiess.
Rather than the grainy image in the Lummis book, Ron Sheeley has an original photograph taken from a slightly different angle but of the same group, it is dated 1884 and the location given as Rorke's Drift Zululand June/84 to Nov./84 the image has a key to it. That key reveals the identity of of the man in the foreign-service helmet to be VCHill A.R..
Given the time-frame of the photograph, wasn't Schiess ill and destitute in King William's Town at the time? Would he not die in the month following the last date given?
I'll let you be the judge of who you believe? But all I can offer are the facts, not hearsay or supposition.
I have just spoken to Ron who is in the U.K., and he is happy for me to reproduce the photograph to prove the matter conclusively.
I can also reproduce an image of A.R. Hill from my own collection circa 1881, should that also allay your disbelief?
John Y.
Alan Richard Hill V.C., identified in Ron's group.
An image of A.R. Hill from my own collection.
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