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![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_left_post.gif) | John Joseph Farmer VC | ![](./templates/Morpheus/images/blue/hdr_right_blue.gif) |
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Sapper Mason
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:15 pm |
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Further to the link LEE mentioned there is an error regarding J J Farmer in that link , he was at Rorke's Drift of course and that is most likely when he met up with FRED HITCH but he was not there amongst the small garrison which defended the drift on Jan 22 nd 1879 . There is another reference to Joseph Farmer which maybe of interest , its an extract from Capt J O Campbell RAMC ( V ) RAMC Historical Museum , Keogh Bks , Ash Vale , Aldershot to Canon W M Lumis MC , Fen Farm , Barnam Broom , Nr Norwich ( Dated 30th June 1969 ) . In it it gives an interesting picture as described by Farmer himself of his life and times .
Joseph and Fred later worked together as Commisionaires and were in the Fulham area where Fred worked , Joseph even was a witness at the marriage on April 2nd 1913 when Emily Hitch nee Meurisse married William George Rainbow , only a few months after the demise of Fred Hitch on Jan 6 th 1913 . The other witness was Emily Farmer . SAPPER ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif)
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Peter Ewart
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:21 pm |
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Going by the above evidence, it would seem to me that a meeting of the two during the AZW was not necessarily impossible but highly unlikely. If they did bump into each other, clearly the most likely circumstances were in a medic/patient relationship.
If the Euphrates sailed in late May (as I understand Lee's post) then Farmer clearly didn't enter Zululand (or even arrive near R/Drift) until around the time of Ulundi at the earliest. No doubt, when he did arrive in Natal, his services were required in the colony itself, such as at Maritzburg or Dundee, or up at Utrecht or even, perhaps, in the Eshowe/St Paul's area as the columns broke up, if he reached that far so early. The Narrative does not appear to provide details of sailing dates as late as May but no doubt The Times recorded its departure from England and arrival at the Cape.
Given that Hitch received his VC at Netley on 12 August (I don't know when he arrived there) he is unlikely to have been in Zululand after early July at the latest. No doubt his movements between Jan and June in Z'land & Natal are already known - they could certainly be worked out with reasonable precision - but any contact with Farmer was surely in Durban or another part of the colony no later than early July and no earlier than late June? It seems to me very unlikely they met in S Africa in 1879, that Farmer was nowhere near R/Drift until after the war (if ever) and that Hitch's post-Jan movements could be calculated fairly conclusively to prove this point? Much, of course, would depend on the Euphrates details (above) being at least approximately correct.
Perhaps they never met before their Commissionaires period?
Peter
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Sapper Mason
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:54 pm |
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Dear Peter ,
As usual you bring up some valid points , in truth i don`t know exactly where and when FRED HITCH and JOSEPH JOHN FARMER met up , meet they did and became friends , this could be a topic that could be thrown open to everyone to see if we can determine just where they met up and at what time . I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it was at Rorke's Drift but doubt must exist as to the validity of that comment of course . Look at the error Prof M Boucher wrote about Fred ( Vol 11 No 6 , Dec 1973 , Military History Journal ) where he states, " He nevertheless continued to serve with the 2nd Battalion , returning to this country in the course of the Anglo - Boer War of 1899 - 1902 " .
Mistakes abound as we all know and so i put it to the forum , " When and where did FRED HITCH VC and JOSEPH JOHN FARMER VC meet for the first time ? " , thank you , " Sapper " ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif)
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Peter Ewart
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 |
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Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:51 pm |
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Sapper/Martin
I don't know Lee's source for Farmer's embarkation on the Euphrates, but suspect it is unimpeachable. The Euphrates, with hospital wagons etc., eventually sailed on the afternoon of 30th May and arrived in Simon's Bay on or by (probably by) 1st July, proceeding straight away to Natal. By 3rd July it had arrived at Durban but had the same problems as Wolseley in the Shah - the Commodore and the surf. (Info in this para from The Times).
There was hardly time for Farmer to get far inland before Hitch was on his way if he had not, indeed, already left for England. However, the Euphrates soon turned round and left for England, with invalids on board, including Col Pearson. Did Hitch come back on this vessel? Someone here will know, to save me looking it up somewhere! Might Farmer have returned on the vessel as a "rookie" medic? And met Hitch? There would still be plenty of time for him to return for his 1880/81 escapades.
Clearly, a meeting inland is virtually out of the question, and certainly not at R/Drift. Any presence of Farmer at RD must have been post-war, even in 1880/81 perhaps?
And if they never met in SA, there was more than one obvious reason for their finding out about each other while Commissionaires, with their SA service and a couple of VCs to yarn about.
Peter
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Peter Ewart
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:20 am |
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Sapper
Admission to Netley on 10th June seems feasible, as I see that Lee Stevenson & Alan Baynham Jones (p 274 of Rorke's Drift by Those Who Were There: Brighton, 2003) include a report from the Stroud News & Gloucestershire Advertiser of 13th June 1879 describing Hitch's arrival at Spithead on the Tamar (remember her, Sapper?) "last Sunday."
I make "last Sunday" the 8th June, so he went virtually straight into Netley - having passed Farmer in the Euphrates somewhere off Portugal a few days earlier? So there you are then. If Farmer was on the Euphrates, the closest the two got in 1879 was an improbable hailing distance in the Atlantic!
The Corps of Commissionaires would therefore seem to offer the earliest circumstances for their first meeting. If Farmer ever did get near the Rorke's Drift area, it would seem to have happened in 1880/81, as some units did pass through that way.
Peter
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