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Date	Original Topic
8th January 2003	Lloyd photos By Melvin Hunt I want to do a "then and now" page for my scrap book. Does anyone have any good quality scanned images of the three Frederick Lloyd photos of Isandlwana that they could perhaps e mail to me? (I dont know if there is a copyright problem with this) Thanks in anticipation. Have any more Lloyd photos ever been found? Melvin
Date	Replies
8th January 2003	John Young Melvin, What ones are you looking for? I have the following originals:- cavalry amongst the wagons - the K.D.G. other-rank standing beside the wagon - the mountain at a slight angle. I also have a Kisch or two of the mountain, as well as one Lloyd of Melvill & Coghill's grave with NNC, and two Kisch's without. As to your query as to have any more Lloyd photographs been found, are you just asking that about his Isandlwana photographs? John
9th January 2003	Peter Quantrill Melvin, James Lloyd's original album,containing some 220 photographs, was presented to Ron Lock and I by his great- grandson Des Watkins in 2002. It had been in his possession for some 50 years. The album is currently being restored and we intend to present the original to the AMAFA museum at Ulundi. Very limited numbered copies will, in due course, be made available . Broadly speaking the album may be divided into three sections. The first are cities, towns and rural snaps of Natal. Second are photos of Zulus which include many known dignitaries and their wives. Lloyd had an apparant penchant for bare-breasted maidens! The third section concentrated on the Anglo-Zulu War, perhaps as many as 60 photographs, a few of which have been reproduced in our book "Zulu Victory." One of the most intriguing shows an officer of the 80th standing outside his tent, and on his table at the entrance, is displayed a souvenir skull. Lloyd, whose studio was in West street Durban was buried in the town's cemetery. The album is a remarkable record of the work of a pioneer in his field, and we are indeed grateful to Des for his extreme generousity. Peter Quantrill
9th January 2003	Melvin Hunt John, I am looking for good digital copies of the Photos that Llood took of Isandlwana. I was under the impression that he published only the three but it is thought that he in fact took more but they remained unpublished as he considered them perhaps too graphic in content. Peter, I have indeed got a copy of your excellent book and noted the photos you mentioned in your reply. I wasn't aware of the Lloyd album presented to you and Ron and look forward to hopefully buying a copy when you publish it. I assume, as you haven't mentioned them, that are are no more known Llod photos of Isandlwana. Melvin
9th January 2003	John Young Peter, Just a query on the 'officer of the 80th' photograph. The officer depicting is wearing a post-1881 forage cap, and he appears to have his rank insignia on his shoulders. Post the Cardwell Reforms of 1881 the old 80th were in Ireland. Is there any clue as to the identity of this officer? Which might also answer why the skull amidst the photographs etc. John
10th January 2003	Peter Quantrill John, There is another group photo in which the same officer appears. As the album is not to hand I can comment no further. The photo with the skull was definitely the work of Lloyd, and was most likely taken during the latter stages of the war.The 80th arrived in SA in May 1876.They left in April 1880 for posting to Ireland.Apart from the AZW they took part in various operations against Sekukuni in 1878,but there is no record of Lloyd having taken photos during that period. The conclusion one must draw is that the forage cap ,if indeed it was a forage cap,was in issue during that period. Certainly Lloyd took the photo, and therefore it dates 1879/80. Perhaps you might like to check with the Regimental Museum at Whittingham Barracks to see if they can identify the individual? We would be in a position to send them the group photo in a month or so. Melvin, the Isandlwana and RD photos are those which,in the main, have already been published. However, in the 60 or so military photos encompassing the war, many are new to us. Peter
10th January 2003	John Young Peter, It's hard to tell from the photograph in 'Zulu Victory', if the officer is even in the 80th. The figures don't resemble 80 to my eyes under a magnifying glass. For an officer of a line regiment to be wearing a peaked forage cap of that pattern it is post- 1880. As I state he appears to be wearing insignia of rank on his shoulder straps - again dating the uniform post-1880. Yet you state 'it dates 1879/80', what is it that draws you to this assumption? Is there any annotation to the photograph? Hope you can help. John
10th January 2003	Peter Quantrill John, It is difficult to comment until we have the album returned after restoration. The photo is amoungst those dealing with the AZW.As it was taken by Lloyd, it covers the period 79/80, following which the 80th left Zululand. This will I'm afraid have to wait until we can magnify the original. Peter
11th January 2003	John Young Peter, Thanks - give me a shout when it is back with yourselves. In the meantime I'm going to dig out chapter & verse on the introduction of the cap. John