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Date	Original Topic
8th December 2001	Secrets Of The Dead documentary By Ross I thought this was a good look at Isandhlawana and raised many points to consider. I was struck though by the reports on the unreliability of the Martini-Henry. The action at Rorkes Drift went on for much longer I understand, and each man's weapon must have fired countless rounds. Why then did it perform so well there?
Date	Replies
9th December 2001	Glenn Wade Hi Ross! I can't understand why the Martini-Henry performed so well at Rorke's Drift but didn't at Isandlwana. You must also remember that at Rorke's Drift there were barricades, light from the burning hospital and many men giving out ammo. At Isandlwana there was an eclipse, no fortifications and many gaps in the firing line. Hope this answers your question Ross.
9th December 2001	John Young Ross, What did that documentary show us? That a rifle that was about 120 years old, which had not been maintained on a day-to-day basis, fouled after firing a number of rounds. Isn't true that the modern SA80 wasn't upto scratch either? Jams, magazines dropping off, etc., etc. Hopefully the Mark II version of that weapon is upto the job. The Martini-Henry action is without doubt one of the fastest methods of reloading a single-shot weapon I have ever seen. In the hands of trained soldiers its effect must have been devastating. Errors were made at Isandlwana, the tactical deployments were, in my opinion, a shambles. The infantry line was too far out, and its reserve of ammunition too far back. Even if a square had been formed would this have stalled the Zulus? Personally, I would say no, look to the Battle of Abu Klea, 17th January, 1885, almost six year later, to the day, where a square was broken. The Martini-Henry was used there. As for the lids of ammunition boxes shattering with the one blow from a carbine butt, I would ask the makers of the documentary to repeat the experiment using the materials the ammunition boxes were actually made from and see if you have the same result. Personally I think the entire production was wide of the mark, I would have preferred to have seen a more in-depth assessment of the archaeological findings, but this was not so. But could any archaeological survey of a battlefield which been picked over since 1879 tell us anything? Frankly, in my humble opinion, I'd contend not much. My own Grandfather visited the site in 1900, during the 2nd Anglo-Boer War and removed items. Zulu children have made a few coins over the years selling cartridges upon cartridges to countless visitors. Frankly, in my own opinion, these "Secrets of the Dead" were best left secret. THIS IS MY OWN OPINION, and despite my position as Chairman of the Anglo-Zulu War Research Society, I am sure I do not speak on behalf of all of my membership. John Young, Anglo-Zulu War Research Society.
9th December 2001	Rick Benson I was disapointed with the "secrets of the dead" programme. I am not an expert but have read a few books with interest due to a family connection with the campaign. A point that was "NEW" to me was the Eclipse. Now due to the power of the internet it is possible to get the position of the total eclispe which was much further North I would be interested to know if it even got a little bit dark let alone dark enough to prevent acurate fire. Rick Benson
9th December 2001	Greg King Perhaps what relics remain on the battlfield should be left to rest with the remains of the brave men on both sides who fought there that day.
9th December 2001	Barry Iacoppi I spent yesterday at a rifle range where I got to fire two of my Martini Henrys. Ammo for these rifles is not cheap even if you roll your own. I would like to see a test where a Martini Henry rifle was fired until it failed but I suspect that would be a costly exercise. My rifles are well maintained and I have no doubt the rifles used at Rorkes Drift would have been checked over and cleaned prior to the battle. They had the time and the warning. Frankly there is not a lot that can go wrong with a Martini and the fact that most of the Martinis available today are fit to shoot showes that the average soldier did look after his rifle. It was after all his "best friend". However when the bore gets too dirty accuracy suffers and recoil increases. At the almost hand to hand ranges they were used at accuracy would not have been an issue. Yesterday I fired five rounds rapid and I found that the barrel got VERY hot very quickly and I will not do that again without fitting my leather handguard. Apart from burning the tips of my fingers I found that the heat from the barrel caused a heat haze that made my target at 100 yards shimmer. I must agree with John when he says that the Martini Henry is fast to load. I am not an expert and I have not fired them all but I will stick my neck out and say that The Martini action is the fastest single shot action ever made now or then. Yesterday I also got to fire a Remington rolling block. Nice but no where near as fast as a Martini.
9th December 2001	Dealer You are all missing the point.. after "secrets of the dead" we now know that it was nothing to do with the eclipse or the M.H. rifles fouling.....all the Zulu's were high as kites!!..do me a favour Mr. Knight...let's face it we will never really know what happened precisely. Perhaps Mr. Young comes closest with the troop dispositions laid out by an inexperienced commander in Col. Pulleine
10th December 2001	David The battle at Rorke's Drift showed that the British were not the only fighting force that could get locked into a particular fighting style. The British were just barely out of the time when they lined up to face the opposing army and trade shots. The Zulus could have defeated the British if they were not so dependent on a certian fighting style. In any event, the two battles of that day were certainly responsible for changing the history of Southern Africa.
10th December 2001	Colin W Yes, the issue of the Zulus being on drugs of some sort was about the only new "Secret of the dead" in the programme. I've always thought that the position of the outer ring of troops was too spaced out and too far flung and yes, that ammo box did seem a bit flimsy compared to the one I've seen at Brecon. I cant beleive that the solar eclipse was a major factor in the battle. Isandlwana has been gone over with a very fine tooth comb the last few years or so and yet we have yet another book on the battle recently launched ( and I have to admit I shall most likely buy it!)Lets have some publications and programmes on other battles and aspects of the Anglo Zulu War that have yet to be investigated as well as Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift. Hlobane and Ulundi would make good subjects for both books and a TV programme. Ian Knight's recent books on Eshowe and the death of Louis Napoleon prove that there are other interesting topics still to be found .Adrian Greaves' book on the Curling Letters is another NEW insight to this war. So come on you experts .... lets have some new material, how about Colonel Anthony Durnford, he would make an excellent subject for a book.
10th December 2001	John Young Colin W There has been a book on Durnford in the not too distant past, R.W.F. Droogleever's 'The Road to Isandhlwana', published in 1992. There is also a book entitled 'The Fighting Durnfords' or something to that effect by an American member of the family. The battles of Hlobane & Ulundi have been the subject of articles in 'The Journal of the Anglo-Zulu War Research Society'. Indeed Henry Evelyn Wood's accounts of Hlobane appear in our lastest issue. So the articles are out there. On the subject of the eclipse, I know it occurred but how many of the contemporary witnesses make mention of it? Does John Chard? Do any of the British or colonial survivors of Isandlwana? Does George Smith at Rorke's Drift? Or George Hamilton Browne? Not normally a man to miss out on a good yarn. To my knowledge the answer is no. 'The Natal Almanac' for 1879 records the greatest phase of the eclipse was at 2.29p.m. - Pietermaritzburg time. Just one minute before the time given by Commandant Rupert la Trobe Lonsdale as rode back into the already fallen camp. As to the book on the Curling letters, frankly I'm none too convinced that the photograph which purports to be Henry Curling at the time of the Campaign is actually him. The style of dress appears to be later than 1879. The ear pattern is also different, always a good thing to check, faces change with age, ears, unless damaged rarely do. So how is it in a photograph, held formally in the Royal Artillery Institution, that appeared in Issue 54 of 'Soldiers of the Queen', page 2, of an older Henry Curling, taken at almost the same angle as the photograph in 'The Curling Letters of the Zulu War' has gained hanging, rather than joined lobes. Or this another 'Secret of the Dead'? John Young, Chairman, Anglo-Zulu War Research Society.
11th December 2001	Colin W Thanks for your information John, I will try and look around for that book on Durnford. As far as the Curling book goes, your right. I had not paid too much attention to the photos, it was the written content that I was interested in most of all. The book is not that well illustrated, some thing that could be improved upon in later editions perhaps? I am a member of the AZWHS but had not heard of your Society (AZWRS). Do you have a web site?
12th December 2001	John Young Colin, No sadly the Anglo-Zulu War Research Society does not have a web-site, yet. (Peter?) We have been around since 4th July, 1992. Pre-dating by several years any other societies or limited companies with like names. It is a non-profit making venture that supports a number of charities doing work in kwaZulu-Natal. The Society's President is His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini, King of the amaZulu. Patronage:Their Royal Highnesses Prince Dr. M.G. Buthelezi; Prince V.A. Shange; Prince N.A. Zulu; Prince Dr. T.P. Mhlongo; Brigadier D. de Gonville Bromhead; Mrs Elizabeth Sutcliffe (Granddaughter of Surgeon James Henry Reynolds V.C.) & Mr Kenneth Griffith. Prior to his death in 1999, Jan Thesiger, 3rd Viscount Lord Chelmsford was an active Officer of the Society. If you, or anyone else would like details of the Anglo-Zulu War Research Society, please contact me via the e-mail address given. As to the illustrations appertaining to N/5, I have a number of contemporary photographs on the subject including; the recovered guns at Ulundi on 1st September, 1879; Brevet Major Stuart Smith (previously unpublished); Lt. H. Curling in 1874 and other photographs N.C.O.'s & O.R.'s from the ill-fated Battery. Look forward to hearing from you, John Young